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Derek's awesome and never ending thread

  1. #51
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wiggeywackyo View Post
    This is quite interesting as I was just digging around on the CSS site and came across a good thread on this stuff and found this diagram.

    Bingo........ the last two pics... (while the sit up is extreme - more like Greenwood's style)

    First Derek has good fast corner speed.... but wants to go quicker through the turns.

    T2.
    Derek was turning-in quick enough and at about the right spot - but at and just after the APEX he was right on the edge of the tire....so much so that I backed off a bit and hoped he would not crack the throttle more......


    Derek's style is extreme aggressive lay down -but is so low that he is laying on the tank – in the pits I positioned him on the bike higher but still like MOTOgp shots… even raising up 4 or 5 inches felt weird as he is now so use to the lay down position.

    There are definitely two different styles as outlined in this pic I took in t6 a couple of years back of the Wood brothers….. Eric is up higher and at the last moment even tilts his head over more (not shown) to get the 10-15lbs out and off the bike even further. You can see the more upright style rider just before an Apex lean their upper body off further to help “bend” the bike throught the turn… this is where the knee into the tank comes into play.

    I was trying to postion Derek higher, into the postion of Jeff (behind) that's how low he was....There is such a thing as being too low...

    Derek, in scanning John Owens pics at th etrack there were a coiupe of shots of you (in T9) i think that shows you in the super low spiderman position:-)....

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    Last edited by xsiliconkid; 08-09-09 at 01:21 PM. Reason: oops add pic
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  2. #52
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Graham's point is valid. If you try the more upright position you may be able to reduce your lean angle.

    I don't believe that you can roll off the edge of a tire. IMO The tire flexes into the ground no matter what you lean angle. It's controling the bike at those high lean angles that gets tough.
    Paul, it's not roll off the tire - it's add power with little traction and spin up and lose traction. (contact patch gets even smaller)

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  3. #53
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xsiliconkid View Post
    … even raising up 4 or 5 inches felt weird as he is now so use to the lay down position.

    .
    this why its important to get "help" before any bad habits are formed.

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  4. #54
    Member DerekSBelanger's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    i think that youre trying too hard to get your knee down.
    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    this why its important to get "help" before any bad habits are formed.
    Thanks, Ox. Honest, I really like the down to earth advice you give.

    But I think we need to meet in person or something because I must be doing something to trick you....

    Whenever I'm at the track all I do, all day long, is look for help. Neither am I the "try to get knee down" kind of person. In fact I'm riding in an Aerostich that dosent have knee sliders so I'm trying really hard not to touch my knee!

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  5. #55
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    There's one problem right there. Get a proper suit. It will allow you to get that knee down and get you more aware of your lean angles in different parts of the corner. Compensating for the lack of knee sliders will screw up you body position and make you less relaxed.

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  6. #56
    Member DerekSBelanger's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xsiliconkid View Post
    First Derek has good fast corner speed....
    Thats the kind of stuff I like to hear!


    Quote Originally Posted by xsiliconkid View Post
    T2.
    Derek was turning-in quick enough and at about the right spot - but at and just after the APEX he was right on the edge of the tire....so much so that I backed off a bit and hoped he would not crack the throttle more......
    If I'm scaring the big guy I better be scared myself! Sorry about that, Gram. Honestly, I feel planted doing what I do in that corner. I grabed a frame from some video - its kinda intersting.




    Quote Originally Posted by xsiliconkid View Post
    Derek's style is extreme aggressive lay down -but is so low that he is laying on the tank – in the pits I positioned him on the bike higher but still like MOTOgp shots… even raising up 4 or 5 inches felt weird as he is now so use to the lay down position.

    There are definitely two different styles as outlined in this pic I took in t6 a couple of years back of the Wood brothers….. Eric is up higher and at the last moment even tilts his head over more (not shown) to get the 10-15lbs out and off the bike even further. You can see the more upright style rider just before an Apex lean their upper body off further to help “bend” the bike throught the turn… this is where the knee into the tank comes into play.

    I was trying to postion Derek higher, into the postion of Jeff (behind) that's how low he was....There is such a thing as being too low...
    Oh man, if I'm lower than that...you'd better kick my butt...thats crazy...even if it does feel comfortable.

    Quote Originally Posted by xsiliconkid View Post
    Derek, in scanning John Owens pics at th etrack there were a coiupe of shots of you (in T9) i think that shows you in the super low spiderman position:-)....
    He didnt put any of my T9 pics on the website

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  7. #57
    Member DerekSBelanger's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    There's one problem right there. Get a proper suit. It will allow you to get that knee down and get you more aware of your lean angles in different parts of the corner. Compensating for the lack of knee sliders will screw up you body position and make you less relaxed.
    Could be! Pete has told me to "get real leathers" too....

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  8. #58
    Member DerekSBelanger's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FireboltEric_MA View Post
    My kids were there Tuesday and were teasing me....A girl just passed you Dad...On a PINK Bike....

    Then I showed them it was no girl...(Thank God)
    Hehe. Which is worse, to be passed by a girl or to be passed by a guy who is mistaken for a girl?

    Awww man, I suck.

    I thought you were riding really good! I remember following you (Repsol leathers, right?) through T1-2 and thinking "his line is better than mine!"

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    Last edited by DerekSBelanger; 08-10-09 at 08:14 AM.
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  9. #59
    Member DerekSBelanger's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    VIDEO!

    Thanks to Trouble for uploading this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziqk8IYaa8M

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    Last edited by DerekSBelanger; 08-12-09 at 09:17 AM.
    Are you laughing because its pink? Thats awesome because it makes me laugh too!

  10. #60
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekSBelanger View Post
    Hehe. Which is worse, to be passed by a girl or to be passed by a guy who is mistaken for a girl?

    Awww man, I suck.

    I thought you were riding really good! I remember following you (Repsol leathers, right?) through T1-2 and thinking "his line is better than mine!"
    Haha..to funny! Yup That is me in the Repsol....After you passed me I was following you and watching your body position trying to "mimic" it, thinking "Damned does he get down low", wonder if it is any good?! I am trying it!!!...

    It felt a little awkward to me doing it that way through some turns but fine in others. I been watching this thread and picking up a lot of info from all this....

    It was good to follow other guys while there and see other styles of riding & There Line trying to find "My" groove in all this track time... Still new to track days & Still trying to find my fast, but keep getting better with each day out there.

    I was able to get the kids hooked while there.... So I will have a "Pit Crew" next time...

    Hope to see you there again soon! Was a fun day for sure!

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  11. #61
    Senior Member Hoss's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOqYbIakRTo

    I had some friends come out and watch and he grabbed a few clips. This one has you in it. I'm the big guy, all crossed up ( I think) and missing the line in front of you.

    If you go to youtube itself the video is wide screen HD. You can see yourself much better. In his comments he says I'm smooth. At least I've got someone fooled LOL

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    Last edited by Hoss; 08-11-09 at 06:19 PM.
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  12. #62
    Member DerekSBelanger's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Thanks, Hoss! I cant seem to figure out how to embed the youtube object....there must be more to it than pasting in the embed code (just shows up as a string of text).

    Whats the trick?

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    Last edited by DerekSBelanger; 08-12-09 at 07:32 AM.
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  13. #63
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Frankly, I think your form looks 10 times better than it did in seasons past where you were trying to hump the side of your bike
    You didn’t like it when I humped the bike, eh? We have a name for that strong negative feeling of dislike.

    Jealousy.


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  14. #64
    Senior Member Hoss's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekSBelanger View Post
    Thanks, Hoss! I cant seem to figure out how to embed the youtube object....there must be more to it than pasting in the embed code (just shows up as a string of text).

    Whats the trick?
    Click on the youtube button up top and paste in the youtube URL code (not embed).

    At least, I think that is what I did.

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  15. #65
    Member DerekSBelanger's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
    Click on the youtube button up top and paste in the youtube URL code (not embed).

    At least, I think that is what I did.
    I owe you a beer, sir!

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  16. #66
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    The yellow bike missed the turn in to T3 (in slow mo) and Derek, you followed him right in...
    1. Don't follow the line of the bike in front...
    2. focus on your markers.....
    3. In T3 the marker reference points (for starters) are:
    a turn in cone and x, (quick turn in not street turn in)
    b inside Apex /rumble strip,
    c corner of the patch just after the inside apex...
    d when at or before "b", vision needs to be up at the T4 cone....

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    Last edited by xsiliconkid; 08-12-09 at 11:08 AM.
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  17. #67
    Senior Member Hoss's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xsiliconkid View Post
    The yellow bike missed the turn in to T3 (in slow mo) and Derek, you followed him right in...
    1. Don't follow the line of the bike in front...
    2. focus on your markers.....
    3. In T3 the marker reference points (for starters) are:
    a turn in cone and x, (quick turn in not street turn in)
    b inside Apex /rumble strip,
    c corner of the patch just after the inside apex...
    d when at or before "b", vision needs to be up at the T4 cone....


    It's funny, I thought I was doing it so well until I saw the video (I'm the yellow bike). Hopefully I can make it back once more this year to work on it.

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    Last edited by Hoss; 08-12-09 at 11:52 AM.
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  18. #68
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Nice video quality and the slow-mo is really cool. Was that the same lap twice? Because they missed it both times!

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  19. #69
    Senior Member Hoss's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Well, I'm sure I screwed it up every time, but yeah that was the same lap.

    In the "other videos" from the user there is another clip of me sucking through 1/1a and 2

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  20. #70
    Member DerekSBelanger's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    I miss the apex of T3 fairly often when I'm trying to go faster - it happens because I dont ahve nay feeling for the front end in the corner and a little extra speed makes me uncertain enought that I delay turn in.

    I think I understand now why slowing down and making the apex of 3 (every time) is a lot more important than trying to find more entry speed.

    What's he say? Less haste - more speed?

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  21. #71
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Try trail braking up to the tiger's teeth. That's where you'll find some feel for the front. coasting from the X to the teeth makes the front end feel vague and like it's coming out from under you (because it is).

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekSBelanger View Post
    I miss the apex of T3 fairly often when I'm trying to go faster - it happens because I dont ahve nay feeling for the front end in the corner and a little extra speed makes me uncertain enought that I delay turn in.

    I think I understand now why slowing down and making the apex of 3 (every time) is a lot more important than trying to find more entry speed.

    What's he say? Less haste - more speed?

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  22. #72
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    yup... i'm trailing to the rumbles as well.... sometimes a little beyond. Wanna be off the brakes & back on the throttle by the bumps though.


    But that's racing.

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 08-12-09 at 03:05 PM.
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  23. #73
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
    Well, I'm sure I screwed it up every time, but yeah that was the same lap.

    In the "other videos" from the user there is another clip of me sucking through 1/1a and 2
    Come on back we will sort you out...... ask ask ask ask.......
    The old adage, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease (unlike an old cranky boss of mine use to say...."or get's replaced":-)

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  24. #74
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekSBelanger View Post
    I miss the apex of T3 fairly often ......I dont have any feeling for the front end in
    maybe if you din't lay on the bike like it's a feather bed....

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  25. #75
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: Derek's awesome and never ending thread

    THE TURN IN, THE TIGER'S TEETH, & THE PATCH.......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZKYRzegjdk

    2 of the informous now extinct SRR team...... (Paul, Chris, Graham, Ken, Debbie).......

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    Last edited by xsiliconkid; 08-12-09 at 04:26 PM.
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