Derek's awesome and never ending thread

[xsiliconkid]

Thanks for the tips!

Yep, I'm turning in after the last cone in T3.

Helmet is HJC AC20 Yates. Are you getting close to figuring out the helmet vs EveryLap situation?

Yes, it all works like a dream.......
HJC AC20 yates graphic scheme do not work....that's why I asked - looked like one in the pic....
While it is not a carbon fiber lid, the paint/transfers on that particular unit is/are metalic! Grounds out the RFID tag antenna return signal. On a positive note you will be pleased to note your head is encapsulated in a Faraday cage

A strip of plastic tape between helmet and tag does it - and/or stickers on the bike itself! We will do both.

[DerekSBelanger]

My last track of 2009 day is next week!

Gotta bring cash for Dan...
Gotta bring cash for Graham...
Gotta find out if Kurtz is bringing the cam...

[Trouble]

I'll be up there Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. If you want to borrow a Hero for a couple of sessions you can snag mine. It's no substitute for having Kurtz follow you, but I have found it helpful.

[DerekSBelanger]

Kewl! Thanks, Trouble.

If Kurtz isnt there I could repay the favor by following (or trying to follow) you arround.

[Trouble]

Ditto.

[DerekSBelanger]

Alright you monkies! Here's some vidoe of blue group in T11-12


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGeja7uXzDs

[TTD]

Cool Vid.

Teaching Opportunity...

Notice the Yellow line? Notice how some people come real close to it while others are further away?

Ideally, you want to be real far from it. That means you turned the bike real hard and got it pointed down toward Turn 1.

This benefits you in two ways.

1 - It reduces the transition bump because you're going more parallel with it.

2 - It gets the majority of your turning done PRIOR to the transition... back in the second part of the chicane. This means from that point out, you're reducing lean angle - which means you can add throttle.


How to do this?

It starts on the right hander entering the chicane. If you do that turn lazy, you'll be poorly setup for the left hander coming out.

There's a little bump in the left hander (the second part of the chicane). When I take the RIGHT turn entering the chicane, I hold it so I'm on the right side of that bump and then throw it down hard for the left.

If I turn in lazy on the entry, I either hit or go to the left side of that bump... and cannot get as good of a drive onto the front straight.

[DerekSBelanger]

Ahhh...thats the stuff! Thanks, Tony!

[catahoulabuldog]

I spy a Kurtz and Pangerang

[DerekSBelanger]

Ok - here's part 1 of my September 29th track day report

I was feeling REALLY good on the ride up to NH, had a plan for the day and expected to ride great. Instead I did a few sessions, fell down and went home with a steering head issue.

But before the crash...

First session: this was my first day in blue group. I expected to be the slowest bike out there but even if I was it didn’t feel bad...like there weren’t bikes flying past me every lap or anything like that. I was impressed how easy everyone took it in the first session; in fact, yellow group is often more aggressive! Nice riding guys. It was much easier to make clean laps and I feel like I belong there now. All good news!

Second session: I started on my plan for the day and began experimenting with brake pressure. I kept the same braking RP @ T1 but kept adjusting how much I squeezed the lever. I was shocked how much more brake I learned to use. At the end of the session I was stopping hard enough that I had to coast half the distance from my braking RP to my turn-in RP! I think that it was a little bit too much braking, because I could smell heat coming off the pads and rotors, but I know I can shrink my T1 braking zone by 1/3 without negatively impacting the entrance to T1. So I was feeling pretty good about what I was learning in T1 but the rest of the lap just felt like crap. Nothing felt normal or comfortable. I managed to record a 1:28 but I felt like I was trying too hard, like everything was too much work. After about 4 laps I lost the front in T2, but somehow just didn’t crash. So I slowed down and things didn’t get any easier, instead it actually felt harder. The only thing I could seem to do well is practice braking in T1.

Oh well…there is always next session….right?

[Paul_E_D]

Hmmm... I'm not sure shrinking your braking zone in 1 by 1/3 is going to work out. It's easy to brake hard when you are far from the turn in point, but it gets harder and harder as you move that action forward. You suddenly have to deal with the transition bump in the hardest part of your braking as well as a higher angle of lean during said braking.

I would have done the opposite. Used my known brake marker and applied LESS braking pressure. This will make you smoother and faster into the corner and allow you to trail the brakes a little more. Then, you will see the benefits of riding smoother and can creep that marker forward.

What happened to the steering head? just some freeplay, or something else?

[Trouble]

I missed "playing" with you. Guess it'll have to wait until next year...

[DerekSBelanger]

Hmmm... I'm not sure shrinking your braking zone in 1 by 1/3 is going to work out. It's easy to brake hard when you are far from the turn in point, but it gets harder and harder as you move that action forward. You suddenly have to deal with the transition bump in the hardest part of your braking as well as a higher angle of lean during said braking.

I would have done the opposite. Used my known brake marker and applied LESS braking pressure. This will make you smoother and faster into the corner and allow you to trail the brakes a little more. Then, you will see the benefits of riding smoother and can creep that marker forward. ?

Oh! I wasnt looking for maximum braking...just trying to learn how not to be lazy about it. To do that I need to learn more about how it feels and what I can do. When I say I can move my RP its not because I want to be chucking it in there every lap. In fact, the opposite is true - I dont like hard braking. The reason I can move my RP so much is because I wasnt using the brakes very good at all and there was/is just a lot of wasted space in my old line/RP.

Anyway, your right about needing to learn to be " smoother and faster into the corner". I started to notice something I need to work on...and I dont understand it at all yet...I'll talk about that more in part 2

What happened to the steering head? just some freeplay, or something else

Yeah it seemed to have freeplay - would click if you bounced the front end - but tightening it down didnt fix it. Top race and bearing looked ok. Not sure what to think just yet - I'll have to take it all apart and check it out.

[DerekSBelanger]

I missed "playing" with you. Guess it'll have to wait until next year...

same

[DerekSBelanger]

I haven’t been reading the forums for the last 10 days or so....I come back this morning and re-read the last page of this thread and it basically goes like this....


Me: At the last trackday this is what I did....
Paul: You shouldn’t do that
Me: Oh, I think I should....but for some reason my riding sucks when I do it!


When will I learn?


.

[brady]

Me: At the last trackday this is what I did....
Paul: You shouldn’t do that
Me: Oh, I think I should....but for some reason my riding sucks when I do it!

I love that game. Wait, what?

[Ken C]

My thoughts:
It sounds like your goal was to explore what your brakes are capable of...braking harder. This is a good thing to practice, not for a smoother or faster lap time, but to learn the potential and to get that feeling into your muscle memory so that if you need it (street or track), you can utilize it. MAny riders don't brake hard enough or brake too abruptly, because they have not experienced this level of (controlled) brake force.

Many of these "non-brakers" coast into corners, because they are unable to trust their brakes/ability.

Braking late and hard is good if you want to keep other riders behind you as is necessary when racing. But, for more casual track day riders, early, light braking works out best. It's safer by allowing plenty of time and space for errors and is more controlled.

Changing your brake RP (later) is necessary when braking harder to maintain the same entry speed without coasting.

[Mad Max]

Great thread! I am enjoying the genuine responses by the salty track veterans.

[DerekSBelanger]

I love that game. Wait, what?

*grin*...so I'm not the only one who does this then?

My thoughts:

On the money - as usual. Thanks, Ken!

Great thread! I am enjoying the genuine responses by the salty track veterans.

Thanks! Me too!

[DerekSBelanger]

Ok – here’s some more video…this time T1-T2

Comments please!

I’ve got some thoughts, but I’ll save them for later because I don’t want to taint the feedback. Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsRbv4VgVnA

[Doc]

Comments please! Thanks!

(Disclaimer: The views expressed below are not from an expert)

I think you look pretty good... but lazy. Maybe it's because you aren't going all that fast or I have never seen video from that angle. Just seems like you are not going quick enough... Maybe you look too good.

You look smooth... but I think you could work on your transitions. Get from one side to the other quicker. Your head also seems to far back and too inline. How tall are you?

I won't comment on your line in 1 because I am still trying to figure it out. 1a and 2 looked good IMHO.

Really picky here because as I said you look smooth and consistent. As always "Brake later, Gas sooner"

Oh and your bike is pink

[Paul_E_D]

It's hard to say because we don't have any other riders to compare it to, but what I see here and in most trackday riders is too much turning after the apex (T1 in this example). This won't allow much throttle, and momentum is lost.

I'm using a tight approach, but a later and quicker turn in than Derek. This allows me to get tighter to the apex (over the tall curbing), but further around the corner and I can get on the gas earlier, then it connects through 1a and 2 in the same way. I can turn in from a wider entrance slightly later and quicker, getting over the curbing and Again accelerating earlier and harder through both turns.

Most riders lose momentum through this section, but it can be maintained using this technique. Entering 2 at a little better than my T1 apex speed is what strive for.

[TTD]

Speaking as a Trackday Organizer who likes to see people smooth and safe... it's perfect.

However, if you were looking to go faster...

If you look for the X between 1A and 2... you'll notice that you are on the right side of it (if you were riding the bike).

On my hot laps, I did not get to the X and were usually about 1 to 2 feet to the left of it.

But if you do this, you have to do a hard/quick turn in to ensure you get pointed down toward Turn 3.

If you do a lazy turn in, you're still doing a lot of turning after the Turn 2 Apex, which can be dangerous if you go down because you're close to the airfence.

Bottom Line: If you can do a quicker turn-in, and get a little closer to the curbings - you'll go through there faster.

[Ken C]

Smooth.

For faster laps, work on a quicker turn-in. Do this by moving your body over a bit sooner (move body left while bike is stilled leaned right, and vice versa) to pre-load the transition. You will also need a sharp countersteer.

As with the discussion about braking RPs, your turn-in location will have to be adjusted so you don't hit the inside of the turns.

[sfgdgfhg]

Yes, it all works like a dream.......
HJC AC20 yates graphic scheme do not work....that's why I asked - looked like one in the pic....
While it is not a carbon fiber lid, the paint/transfers on that particular unit is/are metalic! Grounds out the RFID tag antenna return signal. On a positive note you will be pleased to note your head is encapsulated in a Faraday cage

A strip of plastic tape between helmet and tag does it - and/or stickers on the bike itself! We will do both.

Great, now people are botting for this title. Means my efforts of actually working for it were in vain.