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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdovego
Are you saying traction does not reduce relative to heat cycles now?
Can you share more details as to how this was made possible, please?
Science. Honestly, that's all the detail I have. The properties of modern rubber don't "leak out" magically after the tire gets hot and cools a couple times, within reason. The rubber you're removing by using the tire is having a much more dramatic effect on the available traction than whether they got up to temp and then came back down.
Have you ever turned your warmers on pre-race, gotten the tires up to temp, and then the skies opened and you had to yank them off to go to rains? I have, and I don't lose sleep over that "heat cycling" causing them to lose grip...and neither should you.
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Largely due to that fact that tires are no longer made from natural rubber.
Rubber today, used in tires, is a synthetic rubber, largely made from petroleum products, which are significantly more thermally stable than natural rubbers of the past were.
Modern materials have been designed to work around problems like heat cycles, rather than having a material with which we need to adapt our behavior to make last.
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jasnmar
Largely due to that fact that tires are no longer made from natural rubber.
Rubber today, used in tires, is a synthetic rubber, largely made from petroleum products, which are significantly more thermally stable than natural rubbers of the past were.
Modern materials have been designed to work around problems like heat cycles, rather than having a material with which we need to adapt our behavior to make last.
Like I said: SCIENCE
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Kurtz
Science. Honestly, that's all the detail I have. The properties of modern rubber don't "leak out" magically after the tire gets hot and cools a couple times, within reason. The rubber you're removing by using the tire is having a much more dramatic effect on the available traction than whether they got up to temp and then came back down.
Have you ever turned your warmers on pre-race, gotten the tires up to temp, and then the skies opened and you had to yank them off to go to rains? I have, and I don't lose sleep over that "heat cycling" causing them to lose grip...and neither should you.
I haven't given heat cycles a thought in years. I still like to know the details behind it and appreciate the insight - no better source around here than you for this stuff. Thanks.
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ductard
Geez...yes I realized that CEO and OriaultGaboriault are two different people when I said the only way to settle this (thread subject) was a cage match.
Attachment 41974
I guess I was lost when you threw CEO in the mix. I don't understand the connection? I'm a little slow, too many hits to the head.
I ran #123 from rookie to expert last year, I'll be hanging on to it. ;)
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
The advice I got from Bridgestone was a warmer set at 150 degrees, and start it 45 mins before hitting the track. So, at least one tire MFG is suggesting a use for a setting other than dark roast.
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
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Originally Posted by
Kurlon
Maine Indoor Karting. If we can get enough people with pitbikes to commit, they'll let us run in the evening.
Hmmm 2 stroke pocket bike?!
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Yes, although you'll want to regear for it as it's a short track. We used to have a good size group of pocketbikes that ran with us. Sadly I suspect they've died out along with the pitbike scene in the US.
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheIglu
?
My suzuka's are nothing like the chicken hawks I've bought. Chicken hawks are way thicker. That change in the last 7 years?
straight from the owner of CHs mouth. suzukas are made by CH. whether they are a lower grade i dont know.
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdovego
I was taught the warm setting is to reduce heat cycles and for rain tires. I do not know that to be fact and am genuinely curious.
who uses warmers on rain tires? they would be cold before the green flag dropped.
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheIglu
?
My suzuka's are nothing like the chicken hawks I've bought. Chicken hawks are way thicker. That change in the last 7 years?
CH bought Suzuka a few years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tsorfas
Dunlop recommends wrapping your tires in specialized aluminum foil and bake for 15 ' @ 350 F, the for 15' at 250.
Wrap and freeze if you don't plan on using again within 24 hours.
this is why I bought the fancy aluminum foil CHs last year. I'm gonna send them back though. they only go up to like 220F not high enough for Dunlops
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tls25rs
I'm going to go with NOT one for rains and one for dry tires :dunno:
Probably more like a lower temp setting for those who would want to keep some heat in their tires during longer breaks in time on track and the higher setting to get their tires ready to head out on track soon.
keeping the tires warm/hot for long periods is a really bad idea. lower temp setting is for rains
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
ps. As alluded to earlier the majority of the 170+ compounds that make up a modern race tire are synthetic compounds they react at about 170oF. This chemical reaction creates the sticky traction we need and cooks up the chemicals over time.
Keeping the tires hot between races bakes these compounds for no real reason.
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Interesting thoughts Graham.
I still haven't seen any tire manufacturer or tire warmer manufacturer indicate that the low setting is for rain tires.
Also, my comment of longer breaks in time on track would be for someone who is doing two races with two or three off races in the middle. I wouldn't think that they would want to come off the track with hot tires and immediately put their warmers back on with them on the hot setting to sit there for two or three races.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tls25rs
Interesting thoughts Graham.
I still haven't seen any tire manufacturer or tire warmer manufacturer indicate that the low setting is for rain tires.
Also, my comment of longer breaks in time on track would be for someone who is doing two races with two or three off races in the middle. I wouldn't think that they would want to come off the track with hot tires and immediately put their warmers back on with them on the hot setting to sit there for two or three races.
back pre mid 2000's tire warmers back on immediately off track was the norm to mitigate heat cycles...that is no longer valid.
for the manufacture tire temp setting see attached.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: dual temp tire warmers
and here (plus Mike is the Pirelli guy - there is value in getting heat in carcass and rim even on rain's in cold wet conditions before going out).
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Graham, do the values in the first chart apply to the newer Supercorsa V2? I ask due to the 2012 date on it.
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Mike can answer for sure...
I believe the lower end of the hot temp pressure settings are valid.... And I heard of racers slightly increasing the front tire pressure... to about 31 or 32lbs
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Well that is the first piece of tire manufacturer branded literature anyone has ever presented, that I have seen, to show that they do in fact recommend using warmers on rains.
Until this point it has all been the comments of people who are in the same relative position as I am with regards to knowledge of what the manufacturers recommend, with the exception of Mr. Kurtz who stated the same thing as you without the nice photos you posted.
Consider me edumacated on the topic now.
Thanks for providing the info Graham.
Joel
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Last piece of info.
back 15-20 years ago - it was common to put tire warmers on between races on the low setting (the old heat cycle issue) or just wrap the tires so cooling happened slowly. Also not everyone even used tire warmers.
Now you want the heat out ASAP, tires wear our before heat cycle's an issue, and race compounds are designed to be preheated. Going out hard (not track days) on cold tires invites cold tearing as well as grip issues.
ps go back far enough (when tires were real rubber), the older the tires before using the better, and baking them on your car roof in the sun for days made them even better
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CBR929RE
CH bought Suzuka a few years ago.
this is why I bought the fancy aluminum foil CHs last year. I'm gonna send them back though. they only go up to like 220F not high enough for Dunlops
switching out of the shitty dunlops makes more sense.
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
just so you know Sav, when we were fucking around at Thompson not only was i on my clapped out SV but i was on Dunlops...made in 09.
edit: just checked...the rear is 07, the front is 06
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SVRACER01
just so you know Sav, when we were fucking around at Thompson not only was i on my clapped out SV but i was on Dunlops...made in 09.
edit: just checked...the rear is 07, the front is 06
Im just busting balls of people who use other brand tires than I am.
I am a firm believe that everyone should ride on whatever works for them (bike, suspension, tires, gear, etc).
you are also a freak of nature who can ride for endless amount of time and can take tires beyond their usage allowance.. LOL
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
i know, just giving you a hard time
i may have to go up to NHMS and grab some "new" take offs
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Re: dual temp tire warmers
Good luck...those LW guys are cheap pricks...