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dual temp tire warmers

  1. #51
    Is this thing on? Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Are you saying traction does not reduce relative to heat cycles now?

    Can you share more details as to how this was made possible, please?
    Science. Honestly, that's all the detail I have. The properties of modern rubber don't "leak out" magically after the tire gets hot and cools a couple times, within reason. The rubber you're removing by using the tire is having a much more dramatic effect on the available traction than whether they got up to temp and then came back down.

    Have you ever turned your warmers on pre-race, gotten the tires up to temp, and then the skies opened and you had to yank them off to go to rains? I have, and I don't lose sleep over that "heat cycling" causing them to lose grip...and neither should you.

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  2. #52
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Largely due to that fact that tires are no longer made from natural rubber.

    Rubber today, used in tires, is a synthetic rubber, largely made from petroleum products, which are significantly more thermally stable than natural rubbers of the past were.

    Modern materials have been designed to work around problems like heat cycles, rather than having a material with which we need to adapt our behavior to make last.

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  3. #53
    Is this thing on? Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    Largely due to that fact that tires are no longer made from natural rubber.

    Rubber today, used in tires, is a synthetic rubber, largely made from petroleum products, which are significantly more thermally stable than natural rubbers of the past were.

    Modern materials have been designed to work around problems like heat cycles, rather than having a material with which we need to adapt our behavior to make last.
    Like I said: SCIENCE

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  4. #54
    go faster cdovego's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post
    Science. Honestly, that's all the detail I have. The properties of modern rubber don't "leak out" magically after the tire gets hot and cools a couple times, within reason. The rubber you're removing by using the tire is having a much more dramatic effect on the available traction than whether they got up to temp and then came back down.

    Have you ever turned your warmers on pre-race, gotten the tires up to temp, and then the skies opened and you had to yank them off to go to rains? I have, and I don't lose sleep over that "heat cycling" causing them to lose grip...and neither should you.
    I haven't given heat cycles a thought in years. I still like to know the details behind it and appreciate the insight - no better source around here than you for this stuff. Thanks.

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    Central Mass Powersports #123

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  5. #55
    go faster cdovego's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ductard View Post
    Geez...yes I realized that CEO and OriaultGaboriault are two different people when I said the only way to settle this (thread subject) was a cage match.

    Attachment 41974
    I guess I was lost when you threw CEO in the mix. I don't understand the connection? I'm a little slow, too many hits to the head.

    I ran #123 from rookie to expert last year, I'll be hanging on to it.

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    Central Mass Powersports #123

    1000rr, zx10r, rmz450, RE classic, r6, S4Rs, xr123, sv650(2), cr250 and a box truck that leaks power steering fluid.

  6. #56
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    The advice I got from Bridgestone was a warmer set at 150 degrees, and start it 45 mins before hitting the track. So, at least one tire MFG is suggesting a use for a setting other than dark roast.

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  7. #57
    Have you seen my baseball GingahNinjah's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Maine Indoor Karting. If we can get enough people with pitbikes to commit, they'll let us run in the evening.
    Hmmm 2 stroke pocket bike?!

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    https://www.facebook.com/LRRSBT1R #54 EX 2007 SV650 "Work hard. Play harder. Die broke and happy!" Boston Tier 1 Racing Pirelli Tires Woodcraft-CFM Armorbodies Penguin Racing School Vortex Shorai Batteries DP Brakes Riders Discount SIDI Leatt

  8. #58
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Yes, although you'll want to regear for it as it's a short track. We used to have a good size group of pocketbikes that ran with us. Sadly I suspect they've died out along with the pitbike scene in the US.

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  9. #59
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    ?

    My suzuka's are nothing like the chicken hawks I've bought. Chicken hawks are way thicker. That change in the last 7 years?
    straight from the owner of CHs mouth. suzukas are made by CH. whether they are a lower grade i dont know.

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  10. #60
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    I was taught the warm setting is to reduce heat cycles and for rain tires. I do not know that to be fact and am genuinely curious.
    who uses warmers on rain tires? they would be cold before the green flag dropped.

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  11. #61
    #331 CBR929RE's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    ?

    My suzuka's are nothing like the chicken hawks I've bought. Chicken hawks are way thicker. That change in the last 7 years?
    CH bought Suzuka a few years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    Dunlop recommends wrapping your tires in specialized aluminum foil and bake for 15 ' @ 350 F, the for 15' at 250.

    Wrap and freeze if you don't plan on using again within 24 hours.
    this is why I bought the fancy aluminum foil CHs last year. I'm gonna send them back though. they only go up to like 220F not high enough for Dunlops

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  12. #62
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post
    I'm going to go with NOT one for rains and one for dry tires

    Probably more like a lower temp setting for those who would want to keep some heat in their tires during longer breaks in time on track and the higher setting to get their tires ready to head out on track soon.
    keeping the tires warm/hot for long periods is a really bad idea. lower temp setting is for rains

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    Last edited by xsiliconkid; 04-07-15 at 08:56 AM.
    Graham
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  13. #63
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    ps. As alluded to earlier the majority of the 170+ compounds that make up a modern race tire are synthetic compounds they react at about 170oF. This chemical reaction creates the sticky traction we need and cooks up the chemicals over time.
    Keeping the tires hot between races bakes these compounds for no real reason.

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    Graham
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  14. #64
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Interesting thoughts Graham.

    I still haven't seen any tire manufacturer or tire warmer manufacturer indicate that the low setting is for rain tires.

    Also, my comment of longer breaks in time on track would be for someone who is doing two races with two or three off races in the middle. I wouldn't think that they would want to come off the track with hot tires and immediately put their warmers back on with them on the hot setting to sit there for two or three races.

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  15. #65
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post
    Interesting thoughts Graham.

    I still haven't seen any tire manufacturer or tire warmer manufacturer indicate that the low setting is for rain tires.

    Also, my comment of longer breaks in time on track would be for someone who is doing two races with two or three off races in the middle. I wouldn't think that they would want to come off the track with hot tires and immediately put their warmers back on with them on the hot setting to sit there for two or three races.
    back pre mid 2000's tire warmers back on immediately off track was the norm to mitigate heat cycles...that is no longer valid.
    for the manufacture tire temp setting see attached.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dual temp tire warmers-pirelli-tire-specs-jpg  

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    Graham
    "If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee — that will do them in"

  16. #66
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    and here (plus Mike is the Pirelli guy - there is value in getting heat in carcass and rim even on rain's in cold wet conditions before going out).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dual temp tire warmers-pirelli-spec-2010-jpg  

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    Last edited by xsiliconkid; 04-07-15 at 10:26 AM.
    Graham
    "If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee — that will do them in"

  17. #67
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Graham, do the values in the first chart apply to the newer Supercorsa V2? I ask due to the 2012 date on it.

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  18. #68
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Mike can answer for sure...
    I believe the lower end of the hot temp pressure settings are valid.... And I heard of racers slightly increasing the front tire pressure... to about 31 or 32lbs

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    Graham
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  19. #69
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Well that is the first piece of tire manufacturer branded literature anyone has ever presented, that I have seen, to show that they do in fact recommend using warmers on rains.

    Until this point it has all been the comments of people who are in the same relative position as I am with regards to knowledge of what the manufacturers recommend, with the exception of Mr. Kurtz who stated the same thing as you without the nice photos you posted.

    Consider me edumacated on the topic now.

    Thanks for providing the info Graham.

    Joel

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  20. #70
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Last piece of info.
    back 15-20 years ago - it was common to put tire warmers on between races on the low setting (the old heat cycle issue) or just wrap the tires so cooling happened slowly. Also not everyone even used tire warmers.
    Now you want the heat out ASAP, tires wear our before heat cycle's an issue, and race compounds are designed to be preheated. Going out hard (not track days) on cold tires invites cold tearing as well as grip issues.

    ps go back far enough (when tires were real rubber), the older the tires before using the better, and baking them on your car roof in the sun for days made them even better

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    Last edited by xsiliconkid; 04-07-15 at 01:43 PM.
    Graham
    "If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee — that will do them in"

  21. #71

    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by CBR929RE View Post
    CH bought Suzuka a few years ago.



    this is why I bought the fancy aluminum foil CHs last year. I'm gonna send them back though. they only go up to like 220F not high enough for Dunlops
    switching out of the shitty dunlops makes more sense.

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  22. #72
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    just so you know Sav, when we were fucking around at Thompson not only was i on my clapped out SV but i was on Dunlops...made in 09.

    edit: just checked...the rear is 07, the front is 06

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    Last edited by SVRACER01; 04-07-15 at 03:37 PM.
    When I start my KTM in the morning, rules are broken. Its inevitable...
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  23. #73

    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    just so you know Sav, when we were fucking around at Thompson not only was i on my clapped out SV but i was on Dunlops...made in 09.

    edit: just checked...the rear is 07, the front is 06
    Im just busting balls of people who use other brand tires than I am.
    I am a firm believe that everyone should ride on whatever works for them (bike, suspension, tires, gear, etc).

    you are also a freak of nature who can ride for endless amount of time and can take tires beyond their usage allowance.. LOL

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  24. #74
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    i know, just giving you a hard time
    i may have to go up to NHMS and grab some "new" take offs

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    When I start my KTM in the morning, rules are broken. Its inevitable...
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  25. #75
    Your Father csmutty's Avatar
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    Re: dual temp tire warmers

    Good luck...those LW guys are cheap pricks...

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