No-frillsTrack day opinions

[Boston Moto]

Market research question for you guys.

Looking for intelligent answers here please, so keep it on-topic.

What would you regular trackday goers look for in a no-frills event? Obviously, the cost would be down a bit because of less overheads (instruction, food etc) but what would make the perfect trackday for you real regular trackday guys and racers? How many people, how many groups, food/snacks or not? Voice your opinions here. Talking about VIR.

[DucDave]

Talking about VIR?

Well...North Course or Grand Course....

3 groups is good ...20 minute sessions.

Use yellow and waving yellow flags as appropriate

If the snack bar is open no need to provide food

Discounts on Suites

2 day event

uh...thats all I can think of

[Boston Moto]

Actually, this is good infor for all, so VIR, Loudon. I think the same preferences would apply whatever the track.

[sully749]

Looking for intelligent answers here please, so keep it on-topic.

What would you regular trackday goers look for in a no-frills event? Obviously, the cost would be down a bit because of less overheads (instruction, food etc) but what would make the perfect trackday for you real regular trackday guys and racers? How many people, how many groups, food/snacks or not? Voice your opinions here.

Which course(s)? That would be key to answering how many people (e.g. you can probably do twice as many people/session on Full than on Patriot). Arranging a roach coach would be great. I don't think you even need to provide snacks, really - people seem to get well stocked for trips like that. Finally, and I'm not sure if you even have a choice at VIR (unlike Loudon, where you do have a choice), definitely get more than one ambulance. Skipping some amenities to keep costs down is awesome, but no one wants to wait it out while an ambulance carts someone away.

I'm intrigued, keep us posted!!

[Pittenger5]

I like the 3 group standard setup, since it gives you enough track time, with enough recovery time between sessions. Even at Tony's I usually just bring gallons of water and snacks with me, so I wouldnt need to those. I partake in lunch simply cause its offered, but bringing a sandwich or something with me wouldnt be a problem. I dont usually partake in instruction, but I think I'd be far in the minority there (and maybe I should partake more)
I just like getting out on the track and riding, since track days I just bring my street bike. Im not out there to set blazing lap times, or learn lines, or try to beat people, just want track time on my street bike.
However, Id be a little nervous about complete newbs on the track with no instructors, so maybe a minimal amount of instructors, which the main focus on the slow / intermediate group? Theoretically if youre in the fast group you would need minimal help with lines unless you go out of your way to get some help

[Boston Moto]

Which course(s)? That would be key to answering how many people (e.g. you can probably do twice as many people/session on Full than on Patriot). Arranging a roach coach would be great. I don't think you even need to provide snacks, really - people seem to get well stocked for trips like that. Finally, and I'm not sure if you even have a choice at VIR (unlike Loudon, where you do have a choice), definitely get more than one ambulance. Skipping some amenities to keep costs down is awesome, but no one wants to wait it out while an ambulance carts someone away.

I'm intrigued, keep us posted!!

Well, we might shake things up for VIR in April. Much as we love Cornerspeed and the way they do things, we might want to run a seperate event next year, just pondering really.

Ambulances, 2, check. Good info.

[Boston Moto]

I like the 3 group standard setup, since it gives you enough track time, with enough recovery time between sessions. Even at Tony's I usually just bring gallons of water and snacks with me, so I wouldnt need to those. I partake in lunch simply cause its offered, but bringing a sandwich or something with me wouldnt be a problem. I dont usually partake in instruction, but I think I'd be far in the minority there (and maybe I should partake more)
I just like getting out on the track and riding, since track days I just bring my street bike. Im not out there to set blazing lap times, or learn lines, or try to beat people, just want track time on my street bike.
However, Id be a little nervous about complete newbs on the track with no instructors, so maybe a minimal amount of instructors, which the main focus on the slow / intermediate group? Theoretically if youre in the fast group you would need minimal help with lines unless you go out of your way to get some help

Thanks for the input DB.

Like I said, this would definitely be a no-newbie event if we had no cornerspeed support or other instruction. This would be for very experienced trackday guys and racers. Basically, just yellow and blue group people and new trackday people who feel very very comfortable on the track (like nate ( triumphdog) for example, who was fast first time out).

[Pittenger5]

new trackday people who feel very very comfortable on the track (like nate ( triumphdog) for example, who was fast first time out).

Id be a little concerned with language like that. Some people who go out in red and feel very very comfortable might be in for a rude awakening if they try to bump to yellow too quickly. Ive never been in a yellow group, but from what I've heard theres a HUGE degree of rider abilities. The other thing, since you guys are active members on the board, and active in events and stuff, you might want to come up with some general language to keep the newbs out. You dont want to alienate people who you wont allow, while allowing people that you may know better. Seems like some people might see things as favoritism, and you guys might come across poorly.
I think taking Loudon and VIR would be slightly different. I know I was one of the faster track day guys at Loudon, but going to a new track didnt jive with me, and I was one of the slower, so picking groups might be tougher, and a fast guy at loudon, might be slow there, and someone comfortable at Loudon might be over their head at VIR. So some things might be shared, but other things should be pondered seperately.

[CEO]

A no-frills day should be run such that people get the maximum track time with the least amount of riders, while still allowing the organization to make whatever their needed profit is.

I would gladly give up catered lunch and garage space if that meant more track time and fewer people out there.

No matter how advanced the group is, IMO control riders and/or instructors are good to have around for short 1 on 1 sessions for line help, etc. as well as the obvious lookout for yahoos and folks who might need to tone it down a bit.

Just an idea, if you're going to cater it towards fast trackday folks and racers, you could make it two 30 minute sessions (advanced trackday folks and novices, then amateurs and experts maybe or something like that) where the two sessions are treated sort of like open track time for each respective group

[GixerJockey]

You already know my answer...



also... need to elect a hand full of control riders.

[Pittenger5]

and garage space if that meant more track time and fewer people out there.

I like the garages. I dont know how the rent works, but I think the garages are underrated. Being able to get in there, especially in the summer months makes a big difference. Lot cooler, and get out of the sun for a while. Id def pay a bit more to have a garage than not. Not to mention power for those who need it, benches for tools and stuff.

[CEO]

I like the garages. I dont know how the rent works, but I think the garages are underrated. Being able to get in there, especially in the summer months makes a big difference. Lot cooler, and get out of the sun for a while. Id def pay a bit more to have a garage than not. Not to mention power for those who need it, benches for tools and stuff.

I agree that garage space is nice (clearly since you and I will be sharing one), I just meant if the cost is trying to be kept to a minimum in order to encourage interest in a new organization's day, the main thing people want is track time and open track.

Good point about the power/weather/etc, though... I guess forgoing the garage space probably isn't worth it.

[Boston Moto]

I'm sure the garages at Loudon are included in rental for that track. For VIR, the garages are rented privately by the attendees. This is something we could work out and purchase up front according to interest.

DB, as far as alienating people, that wouldn't be a concern if we wanted to run an experienced-only event. Most trackdays (not all) are self regulating as far as groups go. Basically, we would run a two or 3 group event and we are trying to decide if newbies would even want an event with less instruction. If we ran an experienced rider only event it would be worded that you need to understand what the event is about before you sign up. if you have any doubts, then DON'T sign up would be the answer. Still mulling this stuff over and all this input is great to have. keep it coming.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

No Frills, Run it like Thursday Practice Make it cheap and have a, Lic Racers Group Without passing rules ect.

[Boston Moto]

C'mon guys, here is your chance to ask for what you want in a no-frills trackday!!

Should we make is experienced only? Should we have 2 or 3 groups? maximum riders per session? no motards? (just kidding). Roving control riders? Bike rental? Prizes? raffles? Stunt show? VIP guests? suspension tuners onsite? photograph/video service or not? Camping? evening party? Voice your opinions. Think outside the box.

The only thing we won't be doing is instructing.

[CEO]

Well many of those things you listed would make it a 'frills' trackday

[Boston Moto]

Well many of those things you listed would make it a 'frills' trackday

Yes, that was just a list of a bunch of things to see what people see as priorities. many of those things don't add anything to the cost of the day as far as the organizers are concerned.

There might be an overwhelming need for a photographer, we don't know. We're just throwing ideas out to see what people want/don't want.

[Boston Moto]

No Frills, Run it like Thursday Practice Make it cheap and have a, Lic Racers Group Without passing rules ect.

That was something like out original thoughts.

We couldn't run a NO PASSING RULES event though. I for one would be a nervous wreck all day.

Probably we would not allow inside passing on a few corners. we would have to evaluate that and take it session-by-session maybe.

How about open track ALL DAY. 60 or 70 bike at the event. 20 bikes on track at a time, one bike off-one bike on? No-one has asked about that.

[CEO]

Yes, that was just a list of a bunch of things to see what people see as priorities. many of those things don't add anything to the cost of the day as far as the organizers are concerned.

There might be an overwhelming need for a photographer, we don't know. We're just throwing ideas out to see what people want/don't want.

I know I was just busting balls

Seriously though:

-Cater to the quicker TD and racer crowd.
-Run two groups like I said before, 30 min with track 'open' to the respective groups.
-Max riders would depend on the track.
-Control riders, yes.
-Bike rental not necessary for advanced riders.
-Prizes and raffles would be nice, maybe BM could give a set of tires away at the end of the day or something. (or maybe at the night before party/raffle, see below)
-Suspension tuner onsite would be helpful especially since this would be an advanced crowd
-Photogs are good to have but it seems the quicker people purchase them less so if it costs the TDOrg money, don't bother.
-Camping should be available because many people go that route.
-A party the night before would be a good idea because folks usually need to eat dinner anyways and could be a nice social event. A lot of times on weekdays people take off quickly so an after party wouldn't work as well.

How about open track ALL DAY. 60 or 70 bike at the event. 20 bikes on track at a time, one bike off-one bike on? No-one has asked about that.

Not sure if the logistics of that would work out very well... people would be sitting around on hot pit waiting for bikes to come off... everyone would be pissed and antsy in the morning/middle of the day because everyone wants to get on and not everyone would want to come off.

People might even stay on the track as they got tired because they wouldn't want to come in and have to wait to go back out.

[Manny]

re # of groups...I think for me it largely depends on number of riders, which is going to be a cost decision. If u want to charge 200 you need to know how many PAYING riders you need then add the unpaid riders and sede what the number is. If it 60 or up I think most would rather 20 min sessions with 3 groups (vir more of course) if its 50 then maybe you can manage 25 a group and go to 2. 9y goal would be track time but not more of it at the expenso of being very big groups.

[Manny]

How about open track ALL DAY. 60 or 70 bike at the event. 20 bikes on track at a time, one bike off-one bike on? No-one has asked about that.

seems a lot more confusing then just splitting into groups, plus, it is to everyones advantage to split the faster and slower....even at a no newb event you will have a huge range

[Jaynnus]

How about open track ALL DAY. 60 or 70 bike at the event. 20 bikes on track at a time, one bike off-one bike on? No-one has asked about that.

I don't see that as working. Sounds to me like at the end of the day you will inevitably have those who will complain that they did not get as much track time as another same paying customer. And waiting for someone to come in on their own accord would suck.

Not that I am quick enough to run these days...but I say 2 open sessions 30 min each. This gives each group 3 1/2 hours of track time (assuming the track is closed for an hour for lunch). The groups can be slightly larger as not everyone will run the full 1/2 hour treating it as open track time and with that much track time, later sessions will be pretty thin.

[Pittenger5]

All DB needs in a track day:
Some open track
Minimal passing rules (I think some are necessary)
Groups (I like some structure)
Things DB likes:
Garage space
Things DB WOULD like:
Strippers in the garage for inbetween session entertainment.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

[QUOTE=Boston Moto;616435]That was something like out original thoughts.

We couldn't run a NO PASSING RULES event though. I for one would be a nervous wreck all day.

Probably we would not allow inside passing on a few corners. we would have to evaluate that and take it session-by-session maybe.

Not the whole event just 1 group,

MCallister runs his A group like that With no Problems, The passing rule is "Dont be a bonehead"

[CEO]

Another thing is if you are going to cater this towards fast guys and racers, you could try to schedule it before a race weekend and relatively close to it time-wise.