No-frillsTrack day opinions

[OreoGaborio]

In this market right now it's all about setting yourself apart from the pack... In the interest in throwing out some new ideas to contemplate, how about something like doing two groups... Advanced & Intermediate... 1hr on, 1hr off... with the option of going open session all day long. I think that could go well with a no-frills type of day.

[BostonSVkid]

What would the requirements be to be considered intermediate?

I have only been to one track day but was one of 2 or 3 that were at the front of the pack and passing once they allowed it.

[Jaynnus]

What would the requirements be to be considered intermediate?

I have only been to one track day but was one of 2 or 3 that were at the front of the pack and passing once they allowed it.

Everything is relative. How fast was the pack?

[BostonSVkid]

Everything is relative. How fast was the pack?

HAHAH very true. Well I moved up into intermediate for the last run of the day and was able to keep up with someone that my buddies told me was fast so I guess I did alright.

[Kurlon]

Speed wouldn't/shouldn't be the deciding factor. You can be fast and a hazard to others, or slow and mesh just fine with the faster riders. The key is how well you know the line and react in traffic.

For me, I don't mind the 20 on, 40 off setup. If I had a choice, I'd say call it an 'advanced' day, with three equal groups. Let people shuffle amongst the groups as long as the numbers stay even. That way I can stay separate from a friend, and when he's out there observe from the sidelines. Later on, switch and run the same sessions, etc.

[Puppet]

I didn't read a lot of responses, so sorry if i'm repeating but here's my take on no frills.

2 Groups - 30 min sessions. Lead into open the track in the afternoon as people get tired and the sessions empty out. I figure with 30 minute sessions there will probably be about 2 hours of "all skate" at the end of the day. I don't think you can run open track all day unless you limit the number of people to one group worth. You still need to provide equal opportunity for time to everyone, and if it's open and someone comes off, maybe to make a bike setup change, they then have to wait back in line. Doesn't sound like it works to me.

Experienced only - Basically Yellow and Blue, where Blue is close to race practice with less passing restrictions. Obviously we can restrict passing in the most dangerous areas, but on the whole keep it minimal. If someone has to get talked to about dangerous passes, they leave. Period. This will make people think twice compared to a race environment, but still give more leeway than a typical trackda. Yellow flag use for crashes if applicable. DB - There's a difference between experience on a particular track and experience on a track period. Using you as an example, You know how to conduct yourself on the track, you know what a line is, you know how to pass and be passed. Even if you've never been to VIR (for example) you'd still be eligible in my mind because (leading into next point)...

Instructors/Control Riders available - Maybe people new to the particular track could use some 1 on 1. Work on specific advanced techniques. Allow staff to respond with corner workers to crashes but not have to necessarily shut down the session.

Ambulances - Definitely...preferably 2, but I know cost factors in. If the riders don't do dumb shit then we don't need 2 because we won't have to use the one on hand.

Don't need lunch or drinks provided. Riders can bring their own. With 30 min sessions we can break for lunch to allow corner workers to eat and give riders a break. There will still be more track time than most can handle.

If you're keeping costs down, forget raffles and prizes and all that. This is about track time and getting as much as possible.

[a13x]

Penguin also has great passing rules. Meaning, there really isn't any other than 'don't stuff ppl and don't pass wicked close'.

I don't need provided lunch.
I don't need 'mandatory' classroom sessions.
I don't need 100 passing rules.
I don't need stuntshows.
I don't need raffles.
I don't need a photographer.
Etc.

All of those things are neat, and I don't have any ill-will towards groups that offer them, I'm just commenting on what I, a Expert racer going into his 4th year of racing and 12th year of riding needs/likes if I'm going to pay for a trackday.

Then again I also don't plan on paying for tracktime in 2009 outside of LRRS races so my opinion may be awfully moot.

[Ryno]

another vote for running it like a Thursday practice. (even though I haven't been to one in years

[boloson]

i dont think there is such a thing as a "no frill" track day. its all frills on the track baby

[ahtune69]

i dont think there is such a thing as a "no frill" track day. its all frills on the track baby

Keep this on topic fag.

[Manny]

Open track all day with more than a full size group is asking for trouble in my opinion. You do not want a situation with 40-50 bikes on the track at once. I think this is financially impossible.

2 groups at 30 minutes is great, but will the numbers allow you to break even let alone make a profit.

There is a reason 3 groups is basically the norm, and its b/c of the finances. It allows adequate track time to the most people. If you are doing it to just break even then its a different ballgame. I have not been around this hobby that long, but I ran about 6 diff organizations this year and they all ran that way. Money talks.

[burnham]

[QUOTE=a13x;616642]Penguin also has great passing rules. Meaning, there really isn't any other than 'don't stuff ppl and don't pass wicked close'.

I don't need provided lunch.
I don't need 'mandatory' classroom sessions.
I don't need 100 passing rules.
I don't need stuntshows.
I don't need raffles.
I don't need a photographer.
Etc.

[QUOTE]

This sums it up pretty well for me.

Beyond that I like running two groups, 20 minutes on, 20 minutes off. Just enough time between sessions to cool off and have a drink, check your bike out, and then get back out there. Perfect track day.

[Manny]

For those that want 2 groups, be it at 20 or 30 minutes how many riders per group?

[burnham]

30 riders per group. If things get too crowded break it up into 3 groups. I understand what you are saying about profit, any time I've been at a trackday running two groups they were doing it because attendance was low. I think with all experienced riders it would work, it's just the hero factor you have to watch out for.

[Crash Dummy Denno]

I didn't read a lot of responses, so sorry if i'm repeating but here's my take on no frills.

2 Groups - 30 min sessions. Lead into open the track in the afternoon as people get tired and the sessions empty out. I figure with 30 minute sessions there will probably be about 2 hours of "all skate" at the end of the day. I don't think you can run open track all day unless you limit the number of people to one group worth. You still need to provide equal opportunity for time to everyone, and if it's open and someone comes off, maybe to make a bike setup change, they then have to wait back in line. Doesn't sound like it works to me.

Experienced only - Basically Yellow and Blue, where Blue is close to race practice with less passing restrictions. Obviously we can restrict passing in the most dangerous areas, but on the whole keep it minimal. If someone has to get talked to about dangerous passes, they leave. Period. This will make people think twice compared to a race environment, but still give more leeway than a typical trackda. Yellow flag use for crashes if applicable. DB - There's a difference between experience on a particular track and experience on a track period. Using you as an example, You know how to conduct yourself on the track, you know what a line is, you know how to pass and be passed. Even if you've never been to VIR (for example) you'd still be eligible in my mind because (leading into next point)...

Instructors/Control Riders available - Maybe people new to the particular track could use some 1 on 1. Work on specific advanced techniques. Allow staff to respond with corner workers to crashes but not have to necessarily shut down the session.

Ambulances - Definitely...preferably 2, but I know cost factors in. If the riders don't do dumb shit then we don't need 2 because we won't have to use the one on hand.

Don't need lunch or drinks provided. Riders can bring their own. With 30 min sessions we can break for lunch to allow corner workers to eat and give riders a break. There will still be more track time than most can handle.

If you're keeping costs down, forget raffles and prizes and all that. This is about track time and getting as much as possible.

ok - uh huh

[Puppet]

ok - uh huh

Does that mean "noted" or "whatever, jackass"?

[DucDave]

For those that want 2 groups, be it at 20 or 30 minutes how many riders per group?

It really depends on the track, n'est ce pas?

VIR North or Grand could have 40 or more without any problem. Patriot no more than 30. Summit Point Main...maybe 40 ...Summit Point Jefferson - 30.

NHMS - given this is most of our home track it might support more since I imagine the majority of us know the track...

I would like to see better flagging...use of standing and waving yellows at tracks where that make sense.

And I prefer 3 20 minute sessions for the shorter courses and 2 30 minutes sessions for the longer tracks...

[Crash Dummy Denno]

Does that mean "noted" or "whatever, jackass"?

on same page, jackass

[boloson]

Keep this on topic fag.

your response just screams out

[The Snowman]

Wouldn't running with less cornerwork and less instruction result in higher insurance?

Doesn't Tony's and other track day providers pay some sort of liability to use the track(s)? Even though they give the disclaimer?

It sounds like more of a risk for the trackday provider IMO.

On the other side of the fence, some frills that you could go without are the lunch (brown bag it) and maybe the photos, although John takes some really awesome shots.

[Puppet]

on same page, jackass

[Puppet]

Wouldn't running with less cornerwork and less instruction result in higher insurance?

Doesn't Tony's and other track day providers pay some sort of liability to use the track(s)? Even though they give the disclaimer?

It sounds like more of a risk for the trackday provider IMO.

On the other side of the fence, some frills that you could go without are the lunch (brown bag it) and maybe the photos, although John takes some really awesome shots.

I don't think anyone is asking for less cornerworkers. If it weren't for cornerworkers we wouldn't ride. They're not a "frill", they're integral.

[TTD]

Wouldn't running with less cornerwork and less instruction result in higher insurance?

Nope.

Some tracks mandate the cornerworker numbers (and costs)... others don't.

[The Snowman]

Nope.

Some tracks mandate the cornerworker numbers (and costs)... others don't.

Makes sense. Those that do mandate are covering their asses.

I know I don't make the experienced grade, or even novice grade, having only done 2 days and "spirited" street riding, but this thread gives some great info.

[Boston Moto]

Just an fyi. We would never run with less cornerworkers.