No-frillsTrack day opinions

[Mr. Kurtz]

As someone that's planning on going racing next season... I would welcome the faster pace... Give's me something to chase.

Chase the fast Yellow group guys first.

[GixerJockey]

Chase the fast Yellow group guys first.

The new weapon arrived last night...

[Jayspeed]

Hmmm, where to begin after so many opinions expressed. So many good points have been discussed that it seems there are several good scenerios that can make up a no frills track day. 3 group sessions is standard. 2 group sessions is above standard. Open all day is no frills. Open all day can be done if 40 people are willing to split the entire bill. Or how about if you split an entire group of 60 into 2 groups just for the 1st hour. Everybody pull a number out of the hat(if you get my drift) 1st session 30 people go out for 30 min. Next session, the other 30 go out for their session. Rest of the day is open. The people that just ended their session can stay on track now if ya like but would they? This will create a natural cycle but who knows how well it will maintain with people coming on and off at different times at their own will. This also would only be 60 people so.....price? Since this would be open track, skill levels should be minimum advanced. Not to shun beginners but an open track is not the place for a beginner imo.

[davemon]

- 2 groups or 3 groups with 20-30 minute sessions depending on group count.
- Solid "monitoring" of on track activities and ruthless rule enforcement. I would only want to run with no inside passing and some area banned for passing.
- Shade to hide in which would double as cover from the rain.
- No new riders so a shorter get started deal and no instructors needed
- Enough ambulance coverage to reduce downtime.

One of my favorite days this year was Tony's no-frills day. Sometimes I just want to ride a lot at 80% and have fun. Sometimes it takes me sessions to really "get" what I am working on learning. Sometimes I am just really stupid and take a while to learn. Days like this would be awesome for all of those things.

Dave

[SilverDragon]

That was something like out original thoughts.

We couldn't run a NO PASSING RULES event though. I for one would be a nervous wreck all day.

Probably we would not allow inside passing on a few corners. we would have to evaluate that and take it session-by-session maybe.

How about open track ALL DAY. 60 or 70 bike at the event. 20 bikes on track at a time, one bike off-one bike on? No-one has asked about that.

Degs,
Open track all day is fun fun fun. I ran an Alex Merrill TD at Loudon last season and it was very small but big on fun - it was a gentlemenly open practice though. The trick with that day was it was only 30 riders or so total. Any more than that on Loudon would be tricky but at VIR you could run more than 20 on track at a time if you feed them out sanely.

[SilverDragon]

What about 2 groups?

[Manny]

Degs,
Open track all day is fun fun fun. I ran an Alex Merrill TD at Loudon last season and it was very small but big on fun - it was a gentlemenly open practice though. The trick with that day was it was only 30 riders or so total. Any more than that on Loudon would be tricky but at VIR you could run more than 20 on track at a time if you feed them out sanely.

How much was it?

[Mustang]

Id love to know my lap timers, Id STRONGLY prefer to be able to tell my insurance agent it was a non-competitive non-timed event when I wad my street bike up somewhere

You having a glorified stopwatch mounted on your bike (with velcro/zip ties, most likely) is much different than an organization timing you on every lap and awarding prizes at the end.

[xsiliconkid]

You having a glorified stopwatch mounted on your bike (with velcro/zip ties, most likely) is much different than an organization timing you on every lap and awarding prizes at the end.

You mean like having an onboard vid-cam :-)....later review your progress (click stop watch as you cross some part of the track while sitting into the comfort of an armchair).

Becoming a better, *proficient*, fast track rider - timing laps is way down the list..... Sure I can hear it now... I want to work on one or two things and see how it impacts my progress/productivity...in a tangible way..

Focusing on lap times too much (lap by lap) is a sure way to defocus on getting smoother, quicker....and can get folks away from being "in-the-zone" to getting into the-crash-zone.. It’s, all reference points for everything I do on the track, suspension, tire changes....... yada yada....

As any racer will tell you - the surprise is - what seems like the slowest lap is generally the quickest.... why? Smooth (non jerking) and higher corner speed)

But knowing what lap times you are turning in general can be a good thing - in review, just not why you're turning hot laps. I am talking about track days and not a multi year expert racer.

[zombie]

Having done VIR a bunch of times
I would love to see 2 groups run all day as for me the cost of going down and back and the odds in april being chilly in the morning means missing some sessions and adds to the overall cost per mile/lap whatever and can get pretty expensive.
If there are no new riders then just let common sense prevail and allow the fast guys to rip it up and the intermediate guys to have fun and be cool.
Self policing should be key here and one last thing no shitty bikes allowed and by that I mean bikes that are badly prepped and are in poor mechanical health and basically should not be out on the track
Most people have spent a lot of money on their bikes and don't want to be taken out by a piece of crap or have the track day stopped cos some bike dumped it's guts.
One last thing
Build it and we shall follow and race
Kudos for doing this

[Manny]

Having done VIR a bunch of times
I would love to see 2 groups run all day as for me the cost of going down and back and the odds in april being chilly in the morning means missing some sessions and adds to the overall cost per mile/lap whatever and can get pretty expensive.
If there are no new riders then just let common sense prevail and allow the fast guys to rip it up and the intermediate guys to have fun and be cool.
Self policing should be key here and one last thing no shitty bikes allowed and by that I mean bikes that are badly prepped and are in poor mechanical health and basically should not be out on the track
Most people have spent a lot of money on their bikes and don't want to be taken out by a piece of crap or have the track day stopped cos some bike dumped it's guts.
One last thing
Build it and we shall follow and race
Kudos for doing this

Zombie Rules.

[nt650hawk]

You mean like having an onboard vid-cam :-)....later review your progress (click stop watch as you cross some part of the track while sitting into the comfort of an armchair).

Becoming a better, *proficient*, fast track rider - timing laps is way down the list..... Sure I can hear it now... I want to work on one or two things and see how it impacts my progress/productivity...in a tangible way..

Focusing on lap times too much (lap by lap) is a sure way to defocus on getting smoother, quicker....and can get folks away from being "in-the-zone" to getting into the-crash-zone.. It’s, all reference points for everything I do on the track, suspension, tire changes....... yada yada....

As any racer will tell you - the surprise is - what seems like the slowest lap is generally the quickest.... why? Smooth (non jerking) and higher corner speed)

But knowing what lap times you are turning in general can be a good thing - in review, just not why you're turning hot laps. I am talking about track days and not a multi year expert racer.

On the same note the bike tells me if I am going faster. My shift points will also tell me by having earlier shifts and I will hit the rev-limiter earlier in other areas. All this without a tachometer.

[Paul_E_D]

That's true after thousands of laps on one track, but for most, that kind of information is passing right by their conciousness. The laptimer was a critical part of my learning, and still gives me reality checks. Perception of speed changes with mood.

I'm not necessarily advocating it for trackday use, or contradicting you and graham. Looking at times on the front straight can goad you into riding over your head. It IS a powerful tool. One must use it wisely.

[xsiliconkid]

On the same note the bike tells me if I am going faster. My shift points will also tell me by having earlier shifts and I will hit the rev-limiter earlier in other areas. All this without a tachometer.

I can understand you not having a tach...they have only been around about 100 years.

[GixerJockey]

I can understand you not having a tach...they have only been around about 100 years.

Go Graham, Go!


(now where have I heard that before)

[nt650hawk]

I can understand you not having a tach...they have only been around about 100 years.

Go Graham, Go!


(now where have I heard that before)

I had one before
T8 quickly stole it
Never used it before
Comfortable riding without it
Didn't miss a beat
I only got faster
National Ultralight Superbike Champion
Some how it works

[Puppet]

I can understand you not having a tach...they have only been around about 100 years.

Coming from the guy with two track bikes without a tach

[SVRACER01]

Tony did a 2 group day last year (30min sessions) and from what i heard from people who were there...they were coming in to rest at around the 20 min mark, so while 30 min sessions sounds great, unless youve got the stamina you may not do the whole time or as the day closes you skip a session which just means that 3 groups at 20min would work better.

OR...open track. come in when you need a break.

[GixerJockey]

60 people MAX. NO MORE. if you can go less, DO IT!

3 groups, the idea is 20 riders max per session, plus maybe 2 or 3 control riders.

no hour break for lunch, which is opposite from MM. you should take lunch breaks like tony's and keep the track open.

include lunch into the price. get coldcut subs for lunch, drinks, fruit, cookies and other snacks for the picking all day long (also like MM). the checkered flag is a pain in the ass.

restricted passing in newbie group, clean passing in or out for the middle and advanced groups.

price: as low as you can go. when I ran the MM day towards the end of the season it was $200 I think. I heard early on that the LAPS day was going to be bare-bones for $160 and capped at 60 people or less, the plan was to break even. then word got out I suppose and that plan changed drastically, which sucks completely.

from what you said before, good luck getting date at NHMS. I would go though.

I think a max of 60 people would drive the price up. I don't know what the right number is, but knowing what I know about track pricing, that 60's probably not enough to offer a "budget" track day, and still generate a profit for the organizer.

I totally agree with keeping the track open durring lunch.

Lunch is out... It adds to the cost of the track day. Plus, I don't believe that the organizer is allowed to bring food into Loudon. They are required to use the Checkered Flag. I'd rather bring my own lunch and eat what I want, instead of paying the trackday promoter to eat cold cuts.

[xsiliconkid]

moto market somehow manages it, providing lunch and snacks as well.

Motomarket do run good events... but check your pricing again.
http://www.motomkt.com/trackday.html

[GixerJockey]

I thought MotoMarket days were over $200. $250 if you're within 5 days.

[nerijusj]

i paid $200 at the door I believe. but yea it was an awesome event, primarily because of the small groups.

I'm pretty sure we paid $2fiddy

[Jayspeed]

I'll pay $500 for an open trackday. Do 10 laps, get off and think about your lines. Go back on and do 30 laps. Take a nap. Do 50 laps. Tweak bike. Do a few laps. Tweak bike. Do a lap no handed. Do more laps. Eat lunch. Go back out when evah the heck you want. Do a lap, get off, do a cart wheel, go right back out. Do more laps.

[nerijusj]

I'll pay $500 for an open trackday. Do 10 laps, get off and think about your lines. Go back on and do 30 laps. Take a nap. Do 50 laps. Tweak bike. Do a few laps. Tweak bike. Do a lap no handed. Do more laps. Eat lunch. Go back out when evah the heck you want. Do a lap, get off, do a cart wheel, go right back out. Do more laps.

Rich mofo But yeah, open track idea sounds good

[GixerJockey]

Rich mofo But yeah, open track idea sounds good

Open track sounds like a neat idea. Problem is that you can't run that way with newbs attending. You can't expect someone in their first season of track days to be comfortable out there getting passed by you animals. Recipe for disaster...


And, from the business standpoint, I think it would be foolish to alienate this that part of the clientèle. Every track day junkie or racer was new before this madness seeped into their blood. And if you're going to run a successful track day business, you need an constant influx of new customers.