Heroic vs Vanson

[Jim]

Thanks Scott. That's the type of feedback I'm looking for.

[obsolete]

Any clothing made in Pakistan will suffer in quality. Fact. Drink.

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

I used to rce in a vanson. I now have a spidi kangaroo.
I decided that now I'm just doing trackdays I can afford the ease of movement and more comfort of kangaroo over the bulk and pure strength of the vanson.

The owner of heroic once said to me (quote)
"when you are racing around you want to be in my suits. But when you're flying though the air, you are probably wishing you were in a vanson".

Poor marketing? I don't think so. He admits that as far as abrasion and crash resistance goes, the vanson is better, but if you want the freedom of movement and light weight, go with his suits. He argues that in almost every case his suit will protect you just as much. The 200MPH crash? Maybe not. Lol.

Check out the latest dainese suits. Beautiful and almost all d stone with very little leather. Like wearing a wetsuit. Vanson is old school brute force protection and if you can bear with the break in time, your eat protection I think.

BTW Jim, vanson are popular the world over.

[CBR929RE]

How thick is the kangaroo leather? Why would you not want metal zippers?

I forget what Bickle said, I think its you want small tooth plastic chain type. I can't find the thread so I can't look there and my suit is currently in CA being repaired so I can't look at it. and you don't want metal because it oxidizes and becomes harder to pull from riding in the rain or from sweating. you can avoid that by oiling it but that's a pain in the ass.

Any clothing made in Pakistan will suffer in quality. Fact. Drink.

what about El Salvador?

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

BTW, we are trying to finalize a bulk purchase of custom suits from pilot or vanson. Not sure what we will be going with just yet. We will post details soon.

[The Snowman]

and by the sounds of it Jim wants every bell and whistle known to man. guess he wants to feel like a GP racer.

Jim check out AGV's site. not sure if you're open to them but they have a cool system for building your custom suit and also offer kangaroo.

Make sure if you do go that route that you make sure they don't put that stupid double zipper on it. (the one that also unzips from the bottom). I had to return a suit because the lower zipper bent the lower teeth to shit and rendered the zipper useless.

[The Snowman]

Thanks for our input chuck, but I'm looking for comparison with Vanson and Heroic.

I realize this. I haven't heard anything bad about their suits. The only negative I had heard was the same thing Michael mentioned about the gloves. The one suit I did see (I'll be damned if I can remember who's it was) looked to be very nice.

[EJLemo]

I LOVE my Vanson Leathers. I will never buy anything but Vanson I have had others but they don't compare. Vanson Leathers ROCK. See this Video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciycv...eature=related

Eric

[union]

Not true for either. My Vanson felt great the first time I left hot pit. It felt like it was a part of me. I cannot say the same for either Teknic suit I have used. Those took quite a while to fee "natural".

Ive had two vanson suits. One came from Degsy which is where I started. My current one is a custom build. Break in period was about 2minutes which is about the time it takes me to get it on. Suit was not stiff at all. Never felt my ability to move on the bike was inhibited at all.

Ive had a couple of hard unscheduled departures from my bike with them including a highside in 4, sliding down the shoot into 3 at about 100 on my stomach, and getting run over ironically by a RC51 after a lowside. Aside from a few bruises I came through uninjured. Ill take the extra weight for the extra protection.

[maxim_X]

I have an off the shelf vanson suit. It fits my large frame well when in the riding position. It was only my second suit and my first one was a Pakistani frank thomas. Though I've only crash tested the Vanson in fairly mild incidents i couldn't be more happy with its protection. The fact that they are right down the street is a huge bonus.

[CEO]

When I got my suit made they gave me their new/upgraded padding option, which is what I believe the stiffness came from Jim/Brett.

The suit itself seems ok stiffness wise, I have never had a new suit so yeah it seems a hair stiff to me but that's not a big deal. It fits perfectly right off the production line. By the end of the bomo day next week I'm sure it'll be good to go.

I don't see a downside to the vanson after you've broken it in. Honestly what is the weight difference for a suit we are talking about here, 5 pounds max? Take a big dump before your race and you lose that much. The superior durability of the vanson is worth it in my opinion.

Also for the local vs. foreign question specifically about the race suits... if heroic is based in NY but has manufacturing abroad i would consider that inferior to vanson who is based here and has all their race suits made in house via personal fitting and customer discussions.

[Paul_E_D]

The weight difference can be 20 pounds! Roo is featherweight.

[Kurlon]

The weight difference can be 20 pounds! Roo is featherweight.

I consider that extra weight well needed ballast...

[CBR929RE]

Also for the local vs. foreign question specifically about the race suits... if heroic is based in NY but has manufacturing abroad i would consider that inferior to vanson who is based here and has all their race suits made in house via personal fitting and customer discussions.

their site says they make stuff both here and in El Salvador. I don't see stuff being made in another country as a big deal as long as its made to the same high standards (which Vanson says it is).

[nt650hawk]

I've had my Vanson for 10 year. I may look old and beaten, because it is. For what it has done for me I can not think about going to something else. Vanson has been proven tried and true. Next year they will be fitting me, althought I am an of the shelf 42. I don't need to think about it. They will be getting my $.

[timmyho414]

TimmyHo said his new suit was super stiff too.
The kangaroo Heroic I tried on required no break in.
It seems that only the Loudon riders are dead set on Vanson.

Stiff compared to my Vanson jacket I got in 2005 which took awhile to break in, now it's super comfortable and soft.

Turns out my hip pads had shifted and in the completely wrong spots. Once I got the pads in the right spot it felt better. It was not so stiff that it bothered me on the track and I would not use that a "negative" when comparing. I do look forward to it breaking in though.

I did get my old Vanson (bought well used) repaired to keep as a back up. The thread on an arm zipper worn through and the leather tore on on sleeve due to me not conditioning it, cost me 30bucks to fix the zipper and patch the sleeve, they conditioned both sleeves for me too.

[obsolete]

I forget what Bickle said, I think its you want small tooth plastic chain type. I can't find the thread so I can't look there and my suit is currently in CA being repaired so I can't look at it. and you don't want metal because it oxidizes and becomes harder to pull from riding in the rain or from sweating. you can avoid that by oiling it but that's a pain in the ass.

what about El Salvador?

I was looking at it from a strength stand point, coil zippers from what I've seen suck for most applications that get strained. If they work though you're better off from an ease of use stand point.

Probably better but the distance as an even bigger factor. Use lose a level of control when you outsource your labor. Especially to the huge mills they use in those countries. There's a bunch of different reasons that a smaller local shop is usually going to make better quality garments than the giant mills from: number of different garments each stitcher makes to what will be acceptable as defect.

I can't say much about El Salvador but the reps/owners I've dealt with from Pakistan have been shysters. They're quality has been getting better over the past 5 years or so.

I'm interested in how thick the kangaroo leather is. There is a trade off point between different hides and their strength. I'm kinda interested in how much thinner it can be verse cow and still maintain the strength.

[CBR929RE]

I was looking at it from a strength stand point, coil zippers from what I've seen suck for most applications that get strained. If they work though you're better off from an ease of use stand point.

Probably better but the distance as an even bigger factor. Use lose a level of control when you outsource your labor. Especially to the huge mills they use in those countries. There's a bunch of different reasons that a smaller local shop is usually going to make better quality garments than the giant mills from: number of different garments each stitcher makes to what will be acceptable as defect.

I can't say much about El Salvador but the reps/owners I've dealt with from Pakistan have been shysters. They're quality has been getting better over the past 5 years or so.

I'm interested in how thick the kangaroo leather is. There is a trade off point between different hides and their strength. I'm kinda interested in how much thinner it can be verse cow and still maintain the strength.

just from general life I've found coil zippers to be garbage. I doubt any motorcycle leather company uses them, and if they do you'd be off looking elsewhere.


Kangaroo is generally around 1.0mm thick. supposed to be stronger and more abrasion resistant than cow.

[obsolete]

I thought that's what you were talking about. So you're saying the ones that look like metal zippers but with plastic teeth?

I'm just wondering where the trade off is. How thick does cow have to be to come up with the same strength as kangaroo, ya know?

[CBR929RE]

I thought that's what you were talking about. So you're saying the ones that look like metal zippers but with plastic teeth?

I'm just wondering where the trade off is. How thick does cow have to be to come up with the same strength as kangaroo, ya know?

yeah same as a metal zipper but plastic. they can be large tooth or small tooth chain type.

no idea.

[butcher bergs]

How thick does cow have to be to come up with the same strength as kangaroo, ya know?

I'd say at least as thick as a suit such as a Vanson.

One thing to bear in mind is that the material used for stitching as well as the type of stitching at the seams plays a huge part in whether or not something stays together. Materials could be top notch but the stitching sup-par and the perception of "quality" is skewed. That being said, I'm not suggesting that's what's going on with either of the suits in question.

[obsolete]

I'd say at least as thick as a suit such as a Vanson.

One thing to bear in mind is that the material used for stitching as well as the type of stitching at the seams plays a huge part in whether or not something stays together. Materials could be top notch but the stitching sup-par and the perception of "quality" is skewed. That being said, I'm not suggesting that's what's going on with either of the suits in question.

I'm aware of stitching.

I just find it hard to believe that 1mm of kangaroo is = to 1.4mm (guess) of Vanson's tank hide. I'm not a fan of Vanson's leather as I feel it has too much finish but does any one have any data on how strong the roo actually is.

[Kurlon]

In theory, unsplit Roo hide has 10 times the tensile strength of unsplit Cow hide. Roo hide retains that strength better when being split down to a desired thickness.

On paper. On the same paper, Goat is half the strength of Roo, so in theory better than Cow also.

I'm trying to find the last discussion I read on this as there was some very good points about the quality variations you get in Roo hide and the difficulty in getting large usable sections without strength compromising flaws.

[obsolete]

I read the wiki article as well and the study that the quote comes from seems a bit biased when looking at the source.

[BluGixxer]

Here's what I heard from some very reputable sources. Vanson is the only one left making suits in whole in the us in the north east , ALL others start off in pakastain , not positive but I don't think vanson or anyone gets leather from US.to expensive.
Vanson also has a patent on 2 zipper chest , that is what I was told.
Kangaroo is lighterand tougher , that's why manufacturers are switching. Different parts of the kangaroo have different properties. Sign up on todds facebook page .I'm sure he wll explain things better then I ever could.