Heroic vs Vanson

[BluGixxer]

Just think, if kangaroo is that much lighter , that's worth how many beers and orders of hotwings to replace the wieght of the cow hyde

[CEO]

The weight difference can be 20 pounds! Roo is featherweight.

20 pounds? Sounds a bit egregious.

My whole vanson suit probably weights 15 pounds....?

[Paul_E_D]

20 pounds? Sounds a bit egregious.

My whole vanson suit probably weights 15 pounds....?

Perhaps hyprbolic...

[butcher bergs]

My whole vanson suit probably weights 15 pounds....?

That's pretty heavy for a suit for someone who's 3'2"

[Jim]

[CEO]

Perhaps hyprbolic...

Just saying, yeah I know there's a weight difference but I'm not sure it's as significant as people think.

Also people seem to assume that a roo suit has the same protection as a vanson... while the material itself may be stronger I'm not sure the stitching and everything else is likely as good. The vanson is a tank.

So if it comes down to saving 5lbs i just wouldn't consider that a major benefit.

[Woodcraft]

For what it's worth (and I am a lifetime Vanson guy), I know that Vanson will protect me every time a fall. That's worth a ton to me...and it's the same reason a wear an Arai helmet. There are other good suits out there, but I honestly believe that Vanson is the best. I have in my ridign career crashed 5-6 times at over 150 mph. Vanson has protected my skin every single time. In three of those crashes I spent the whole time - 150 to zero - on the ashphalt. The leather quality, stitching and general craftsmanship have very likely saved me a skin graft or two. I have seen a few single suits endure many (up to 5-6) crashes before needing any real repair, and club racers really appreciate this.

Vanson does not pay national riders big money or give them unlimited free product, which is why you don't see a ton of those guys wearing thier stuff. If a suit is one an done, but you get them all for free anyway, it's not as big a deal as it is for a club racer. They have also been supporting LRRS for over 20 years, and that counts for a lot in my book.

[CBR929RE]

Just saying, yeah I know there's a weight difference but I'm not sure it's as significant as people think.

Also people seem to assume that a roo suit has the same protection as a vanson... while the material itself may be stronger I'm not sure the stitching and everything else is likely as good. The vanson is a tank.

So if it comes down to saving 5lbs i just wouldn't consider that a major benefit.

I'd say our suits are very similar in size and the shipping receipt for mine says the suit and box weighed 11.5lbs so I'd say 15 is probably close for yours, that might even be a 1-2 over cause I doubt the little bit of extra thickness is gonna add that much more weight.

the stitching on roo can be just as strong as your Vanson but its really dependent on what thread they use and their stitching method. really doesn't have much to do with what animal it is. depends on the company.

[CEO]

For what it's worth (and I am a lifetime Vanson guy), I know that Vanson will protect me every time a fall. That's worth a ton to me...and it's the same reason a wear an Arai helmet. There are other good suits out there, but I honestly believe that Vanson is the best. I have in my ridign career crashed 5-6 times at over 150 mph. Vanson has protected my skin every single time. In three of those crashes I spent the whole time - 150 to zero - on the ashphalt. The leather quality, stitching and general craftsmanship have very likely saved me a skin graft or two. I have seen a few single suits endure many (up to 5-6) crashes before needing any real repair, and club racers really appreciate this.

Vanson does not pay national riders big money or give them unlimited free product, which is why you don't see a ton of those guys wearing thier stuff. If a suit is one an done, but you get them all for free anyway, it's not as big a deal as it is for a club racer. They have also been supporting LRRS for over 20 years, and that counts for a lot in my book.

100% agree.

the stitching on roo can be just as strong as your Vanson but its really dependent on what thread they use and their stitching method. really doesn't have much to do with what animal it is. depends on the company.

Exactly, the stitching on suits is VERY variable across the marketplace. However if I buy a vanson, i KNOW the stitching is bulletproof.

[tsorfas]

is anyone here wearing 2pc suit? do you think its less safe?
sorry for the mini threat theft Jim but Im buying a new suit too and your thread got me thinking

[PainfullySlow]

Eric's point about supporting those that directly support LRRS is valid and does carry a lot of weight with me. Since no one is arguing that Vanson provides the best protection I guess I will give them a call and see if we can come to terms on a suit that doesnt look like it was designed in 1955.

[Mustang]

Eric's point about supporting those that directly support LRRS is valid and does carry a lot of weight with me. Since no one is arguing that Vanson provides the best protection I guess I will give them a call and see if we can come to terms on a suit that doesnt look like it was designed in 1955.

You don't want the suit to look like it's as old as the person wearing it?

[CEO]

Eric's point about supporting those that directly support LRRS is valid and does carry a lot of weight with me. Since no one is arguing that Vanson provides the best protection I guess I will give them a call and see if we can come to terms on a suit that doesnt look like it was designed in 1955.

If you go with the Volante (their top suit) and don't mix colors, it looks pretty nice. I just did a straight black volante, and had them use the red foil leather for the vanson logos and names and such for a little accent. It looks slick.

You can also choose your own design for a little more money and certainly make it look any way you want.

[PainfullySlow]

You don't want the suit to look like it's as old as the person wearing it?

Im'ma cut you.

Yeah I was looking at the Volante as the suit of choice. I am horribly un-artistic but I will see if I can come up with a design that doesnt suck.

[The Snowman]

Im'ma cut you.

Yeah I was looking at the Volante as the suit of choice. I am horribly un-artistic but I will see if I can come up with a design that doesnt suck.

You can work with them on design. The custom Volante I got was just over $1800 with everything included. (this was also during their open house w/ a 10% discount)

For the design, they price will allow any color to any panel. This means you can have a Partidge Family bus suit with every panel being a different color, if you wanted it. It's only when you start splitting panels into multiple patterns that the price starts going up.

So, design something on your own and bring it down. I'm sure they'll work with you on getting what you want.

[Chuck]

I wear a Vanson Volante suit (red black and yellow) and agree with others that have said it's the best. Custom fit so break-in time is very minimal. Super strong stitching. These suits really hold up well. The armor could be better (especially the back protector and hip armor) but you can easily change that out. They will add graphics, change colors, whatever you want. Vanson also repairs their suits and even offers a re-dye service. They are pricey, but the investment is well worth it and it will be a suit that you'll have for many years.

[CEO]

Now that I have done a race weekend in my suit it's broken in much more and feels great... like a glove, baby

[Jim]

after reading around, i'm probably going to end up with the same suit that Chris got. I might even have the CEO stitched on my back.

[CEO]

I might even have the CEO stitched on my back.

[timmyho414]

I have to say, my Vanson felt great this weekend too(2nd weekend worn). I think a little sweet helped it soften up.

I had to wear my old Vanson on Friday. I sent the new one back for a minor, purely cosmetic correction(the flag was on the wrong side). I did not realize how poorly the old one(bought used and a few sizes too big) fit until I slipped on the new one Saturday. Oooooooooooooh baby it's nice.

Matt at Vanson can take your idea's and make it look better the you think. I sent them what I thought I wanted. He sent back what really wanted.

[CEO]

I sent the new one back for a minor, purely cosmetic correction(the flag was on the wrong side).

Funny, they STILL can't seem to get this right. I remember several other people had the flag put on the wrong way on theirs.

So I even GAVE them a normal flag (stars in top left) and a reverse flag (stars in top right) patch and explained to him the proper way to mount them (stars forward) on both shoulders.

Then when I picked it up I didn't notice, but when I got home i saw they used the standard (top left) flag on BOTH arms.

I didn't want to drive all the way back down to fall river so I was just like F it...

Definitely pissed me off as I provided the proper patches and instruction. I guess it's partially my fault for being too lazy to follow up but I'm not going to blow 50 bucks in gas round trip to have them fix it.

[scottieducati]

LOL, do you have an idea of what "rating" means? It means tested under a specific pressure, over a specific contact area under constant force for 20 meters. Sliding 100' on a track while moving around and tumbling will not put equal pressure over the same area for the duration.

I have owned and loved Vanson suits, but to say they are safer than high-end roo suits is laughable (claiming they have a longevity advantage I can get, since they're thick and easily repaired). Otherwise, you'd see riders in all the top series wearing them. I have not seen a Vanson suit on TV on any channel other than SPEED's coverage of domestic stuff. You can say it's a promotional thing, but the MotoGP / WSBK guys seem to come away from their crashes in Kangaroo suits just fine.

No comment on Heroic, I have not worn their suits, but we are talking about material selection for material properties and Kangaroo leather is well-tested and documented to equal or surpass cowhide in almost every way.

That being said, I'd buy another Vanson in a heartbeat... but I wish they'd start to incorporate newer materials to reduce weight and increase flexibility.

Jim McClure wore Vanson leathers while racing and came off his top fuel nitro harley at 200 mph...none of the leather stiching or leathers failed at impact or during the slide. If that isnt proof as to their quality, you will never be satisfied with anything. Vanson only produces one level of leathers for racing, the same ones Jim wore are what the average person can pick up at their store in Fall River, MA.


from Heroic's site

Their $1800 custom Podium suit
Designed to slide 20 meters on asphalt before thread fatigue
Crash rated at 120-140 mph


Thanks...but I will stick with one that has been tested at 200 mph and slid over 100 yards...

[CEO]

Otherwise, you'd see riders in all the top series wearing them. I have not seen a Vanson suit on TV on any channel other than SPEED's coverage of domestic stuff. You can say it's a promotional thing, but the MotoGP / WSBK guys seem to come away from their crashes in Kangaroo suits just fine.

And then they put on a new one for their next race and that one goes into the trash...

[HEROICRacing]

Hey All... So here is how the story goes. I sponsored and still provide suits for the legendary Shawn Higbee. Shawn bought a set of my SP-R's at the NJMP AMA race in 2010. Shortly after, he called me and said; Todd, I just had a HORRIFIC wreck where I slid on my hands for over 500 feet on the asphalt and there is no damage at all on your gloves. I WANT TO WEAR YOUR SUITS. BTW, Shawn had the SICKEST Vanson suit I have ever seen. The amount of work Vanson put into that suit was CRAFTSMANSHIP. Shawn told me, if your suits work as well as your gloves I want to wear them. I made him a suit and HERE'S where this quote came from.

Shawn told me after another horrific crash that "Todd, here's my feedback with your suit; when I'm qualifying or trying to hit my personal best I wish I was in a Berik, at the point I'm up in the air looking down, I wish I could snap my fingers and be in my Vanson. Your suit gives be both aspects and I feel like I have the best of both worlds."

I love Vanson. I wouldn't be here without Vanson. What are the differences? A LOT. Two TOTALLY different customers, two TOTALLY different products. In fact I commonly state the fact and Matt Silva should attest that I send people to Vanson. My scenario, if a customer calls and says I really want a Vanson but Scottie Greenwood or Al Guilbeault told them to call HEROIC, I convince the customer to go with Vanson. Look, you really want the blond at the bar, I can hook you up with the brunette. You take the brunette home and your still thinking about the blond. LOL Crazy comparison, but similar in my mind. Matt from Vanson has accelerated and given me A LOT of ideas that have really helped to bring my product where it is today. But they are different.

I have latency issues due to size and this is being corrected. It is my utmost goal to offer in the future HEROIC leadtime and I'm working very hard to correct this. Keith Draghi embarrassingly waited 6 months for me to get his glove to him... That is WRONG.. I tried my best to FINALLY deliver him a worldclass product and also gave his friend a free set. To find out that Ballist.. was working with a rogue team in our factory and was taking away production time. Situation removed and we are working to get back to the turnaround that I had before. The reason I was taking Pilot business when I started.. Fast turnaround / outstanding product.

Construction and Components - Honestly the only frustration of mine is that I use Pakistan and I'd rather have a Made in America. You people are in NE and you can go down the list on ski companies that have abandoned the NE. I'm in Pakistan because these guys that I have assembled are world class. World class enough for my gloves to get Glove of the Year in 2009 and the pro's are the most knocked off glove of 2012. This has come from my AMA/CCS/WERA/WSS and trackday grass roots efforts and working one on one with people like you.


People like you are the heart of my direction. HEROIC isn't just a brand, I want the brand to be a label that reflects the person wearing it.

One person mentioned that the threads were failing in the 2009 suits. Your absolutely right and I fixed and resewed every suit that someone sent back to me... FREE. I recalled every suit in 2008 due to one suit's metal YKK Zipper breaking. I recalled 80 suits and spent over $200 a suit and $120 to ship as most were in Canada; to fix this and send back. 2010. I went nearly broke recalling 90% of the suits I sold due to the new zippers I had moved to. I replaced each zipper and shipped the suits back to the customer for free. 2012. From all this misfortune I have a BITCHIN suit because I've seen the issues, addressed the issues and had incredible success with this.

Gloves: I've done AMA support up until the last two rounds and I chose to spend the time with the local CCS racers. What I've learned from working at these rounds. Well I've fixed every brand and hear from every racer what they like and what they dislike. Which brands listen? None.. I write down every + and - and add that + to my next batch. I have repeatedly gone to the most popular brand in the industry and told them how to fix their legendary/common issue with every glove they make and they pointedly said they don't care. Thats between me and them and the blatantly mentioning the brand is not important. What is, rider performance and rider safety. My gloves immediately got this enhancement... NEXT batch

I'm just a guy like you that wanted to build a world class product. When I was coaching, the only pro suit on the market was Mot.oGP/B.erik. And they were taking over the trackdays with pro suits to common dudes like u and me. I started modifying my AG.V.. suits to fit like the pros were getting. I took my suits to work and the ladies would help me make these touring suits fit like the pros. Started wearing them and people started buying them...

Common complaint. Vanson was safe but was antiquated and took 3 years to break in. I'm a reactor. I wanted to change the education of my consumers and be able to make something that performed instantly.

My analysis of the difference is this. If all your worried about is being safe; buy a Vanson. If your biggest concern is origin of make... By all means buy Vanson. The reason for buying my suit is that your want to perform at the highest level possible to your ability. I have world class fit out of the gate and I direct each consumer to exactly what they need. Exact fit on gloves, exact fit on the abilty or needs of the suit, and I can offer branding that is offered on the highest GP riders. Many brands are using what I have worked with my factory to develop in Pakistan. Before 2009, only printed suits on the market were top five AMA Alpine riders and ..... HEROIC. I wanted to offer the common man... You and I what the highest level of pros were getting.

I'm getting better... I try my hardest to be transparent about all aspects of the business.

All my suits are the same from what you get to what my pro's get.
My montra: Performance over safety and that safety line is only a few hairs lower that performance in my mind. We should all be concerned about safety, but if 100% of the emphasis is not on performance.... Your in the wrong sport.

The guys will say... BUT HEROIC CAN'T WRECK LIKE... R U SERIOUS???

I gave Eric Stump AMA Supersport two .69mm belly hide roo suits last year. Mind you this suit is tissue paper. 21 wrecks over 120mph with 0 holes. I didn't even give him the second one until Mid Ohio. He is still to this day wearing both suits in Flat Track.

Paul Allison - Guy has had more wrecks in HEROIC suits than any other rider I've had. 3 RRW Crash pages in one year... Same suit.... Never fixed it. 2011: Gave him a .69mm belly hide roo suit. He wore it up to 2012 AMA Infineon. How many wrecks... You tell me.. I can't count. Holes, I fixed small holes and repainted the suit 7 times. Never once had major damage.

Mesa... Crashed every suit I gave him. I have one suit ... from 2011 Daytona that he wore half the season and had 2 back to back wrecks over 150mph same place on track. horseshoe on cheesegraders. 0 holes. Come check out the suit at the Classic.

There's room for every innovative brand. Different customers, different needs.

2nd Picture Paul Allison - notice the suit. The suit is already ... appearance destroyed, no holes before, afterwards... WELL, I sewed it by hand. He's still wearing it on the motard tracks

Wirelessly posted

I used to rce in a vanson. I now have a spidi kangaroo.
I decided that now I'm just doing trackdays I can afford the ease of movement and more comfort of kangaroo over the bulk and pure strength of the vanson.

The owner of heroic once said to me (quote)
"when you are racing around you want to be in my suits. But when you're flying though the air, you are probably wishing you were in a vanson".

Poor marketing? I don't think so. He admits that as far as abrasion and crash resistance goes, the vanson is better, but if you want the freedom of movement and light weight, go with his suits. He argues that in almost every case his suit will protect you just as much. The 200MPH crash? Maybe not. Lol.

Check out the latest dainese suits. Beautiful and almost all d stone with very little leather. Like wearing a wetsuit. Vanson is old school brute force protection and if you can bear with the break in time, your eat protection I think.

BTW Jim, vanson are popular the world over.

[Evadd]

Thanks for taking the time to chime in, HR. Good to see a manufacturer take his [potential] customers so seriously.