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Who should I be watching on youtube to get a feel for the lines before my first track day next week?
I tried watching some video a friend had before I did my first trackday...and it made NO sense until I rode the track. For your first trackday, Jay nailed it; just take advantage of the follow the leader session(s), and don't be shy about grabbing a control rider or instructor and asking them to follow you, or lead you around to make sure you're on the right track.
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Boston Moto has a pretty good 'Intro To Track Day's' program - fwiw!
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Last edited by OreoGaborio; 06-27-13 at 04:00 PM.
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I'm not going to say the line is the last thing you need to worry about but it's definitely not on the top of the list. Follow the control riders and try to learn some reference points but above all have some fun dammit and keep the rubber side down. Veteran track junkies and racers still ask questions and learn new things about "the line" don't over think a good time, it's a track day not the Isle!
. 02 of course
The best lines usually come from Kates: http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...ighlight=PKism
Oooohhhhh...you mean those lines![]()
LRRS/CCS Expert #820 / RSP Racing / Woodcraft / MTAG Pirelli / Dyno Solutions / Tony's Track Days / Sport Bike Track Gear / GMD Computrack /
I've watched videos before going to a new track, played video games that had the track I was going to on there.....and the most I got out of it was knowing the rights and lefts. Follow someone who knows where they are going, memorize the fastest parts of the track first (they create the most stress), then dial in the entrances on the big braking corners and the rest of the track will fall into place. It's the old "slow down to go fast" theory.....taking a little extra off for the first few sessions will make the later ones faster and more comfortable. Write things down if you can make the time - it helps reinforce everything you are doing out there.
Best of luck!
+1 to above: follow the leader, control riders, ask a lot of questions.
You can try to do a track walk before the big day as well. That might help. It did not help me as much as I would have hoped. Everything was foreign gibberish my first track day. Reference points? Brake markers? Tip in? Who cares!?!
Plus, I needed an attitude adjustment. (What else is new!) My attitude was that I didn't give a damn about "the line" or any of that racer-boy jedi sorcery BS. I'm a street rider galdangit! I was there to learn how to lean, how to brake, and how to drag my knee.. yo.
Tony's guys convinced me in relatively short order that "the line" is pretty damned important for safety reasons. If everyone out there is headed in the same direction and someone fubars something, the impact is likely to be a glancing one and hopefully less damaging. Then again, if rider x is way the hell off the line and rider y is on it and they both approach an apex at the same time, well, now you have a full on intersection situation. More hurty.
I buy this theory.
It also gives you a useful vocabulary. Tip in nearly right at the apex of 9?! Wookay.. I'll try.
So yeah, "the line" is pretty damned important. After that they can start to teach you about the other neato things, like vision, body position, brake and throttle management.. all that jazz.
I've been watching a few youtube videos and I noticed in some of them, there are little white marks painted? on the track that serve as markers for tip-in, apex, and track-out. You'd pretty much ride to connect the dots.
What's the difference between a bolt and a screw?
First you screw, then you bolt.
You got it man. Connect the dots. So easy any idiot can do it..
Tony's puts out little tape X'es on the track as additional ref marks. Other orgs don't. Me, I missed them my last time out without 'em.
They are tape marks.
I know Tony's puts them down. I can't speak to other trackday programs. They are helpful for learning the track, but the instructors will encourage you to find your own references, as they aren't always there.
Well there's the fast line, and the street rider line that some td orgs (and groups within) adhere to.
You'll probably be more comfortable with the street rider line. The fast line is less swoopy, but can be more intimidating for noobs.
I've found some of the videos to showcase more wrongs than rights. If you watch Pete's video, picture yourself where he is, not necessarily where the guy in front goes. I do some things a little different, but Pete is faster than me, so I'll leave it at that.
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Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.
No offense, Greg, but this is definitely not an accurate statement. The line is one of THE most important things to learn. Once you can stay on the line and be predictable, it makes it easier to do the same thing, lap after lap.
It also makes you a safer passer and passee. Once you learn the line, then you work on other aspects of riding, including body position, Smooth throttle and braking control, and the reference points at which you do all of the aforementioned points.
Completely agree and I wasn't clear but what I meant was if you can get close to the line and stay near it in a novice group you should be ok but obsessing over it might be a bit much. You are right though I may have down played the importance safety wise, good call on the clarification! I'm no racer or instructor
But you've been on the track to know the importance of the line. You're right that obsessing over the line is a bit much. For newcomers, just staying close to it takes time, as street riders tend to swoop through the course. The best example is from T7 through T9. Most first timers tend to swing wide so that they can try to see around the turns, instead of trusting what they know to be the track.
That's what I was trying to say although I did a poor job, trying to find the perfect line on your first track day is just not going to happen. Thanks chuck, you seem to have become a pretty damn good instructor!
I remember doing my first track day in my car at NHMS, and I forgot what happened after the treehouse EVERY SINGLE LAP. It messed up the rest of the lap pretty much until I got back onto the straight. I also had a very hard time paying attention to the marshals. To be honest, I think I was driving too hard and not paying attention to the track as a whole. It wouldn't surprise me to hear others having similar experiences.
What's the difference between a bolt and a screw?
First you screw, then you bolt.
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that there is not a fast line that differs from a street rider line or anything other type of line. When you take a different line, what does it change? It changes the location of your inputs; where you can brake, where you can turn, where you can get on the gas. That's it. The "fast" guys take the lines that they do because those lines create more traction in the area that it is needed for each particular turn. Something that I've taught at the Penguin School for a long time is that it does not matter if you are a racer trying to break the lap record or if you are a track day rider trying to enjoy the track with the least amount of risk - putting yourself on the right line gives you more grip where you need it, leaving more room for either speed or safety, whatever you choose. Big bikes and small bikes have some small variations in lines, but it's a lot less than you think in a number of areas.
In the end, understanding the "where" is not the important part, it's understanding the "why". Once you know what it is you are trying to accomplish, the lines almost paint themselves and feedback from the bike is much more easily understood.
The only time you would do a "street line" on the track is if you were trying to teach someone how to be safer on the road.
For example, for Turn 9 you might hold to the right a little longer and get a peek down the hill before turning in. This would let you see oncoming traffic, something in the road, etc. The same way you would use a late apex on the street in a blind corner.
However, on the track we have one way traffic and Cornerworkers to warn you, so you should be taking the racing line.