Noob Track Rider- Question

[OreoGaborio]

Dude, just getting passed while going down the front straight can be an "unexpected area" for a new track rider.

"Unexpected" doesn't necessarily mean "dangerous" or "illegal" in any way shape or form. And it doesn't necessarily have to SCARE them or startle them, either, it can just be "Oh... hmm... didn't expect to get passed there. Ok."

I dare say, if you talked to your beginner group and asked them to count how many times they got passed when and where they didn't really expect it, that number would probably be much bigger than you'd think. (With that said, I probably WOULDN'T ask them to do that as they've got enough to think about already, but if they did, I bet you'd be surprised with the results.)

[xsiliconkid]

goldwing on track
Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSVg3...e_gdata_player

[nhbubba]

You take my mirrors away.. yeah, shits gonna be 'unexpected' for a while, no doubt.

[DucDave]

A control rider may pass you SAFELY anywhere. We make every effort to leave plenty of space and not startle the customer. This should be thoroughly explained in the Riders Meeting...and 'Control Riders' should be readily identified by their vests, shirts or gigantic heads!

[xsiliconkid]

A control rider may pass you SAFELY anywhere. We make every effort to leave plenty of space and not startle the customer. This should be thoroughly explained in the Riders Meeting...and 'Control Riders' should be readily identified by their vests, shirts or gigantic heads!

hmmmm, anywhere? surely staff have to also abide by any passing rules
Also we sometimes forget ,for a racer a 12" clearance pass is not close but for a new track rider 4' is close.

[TTD]

Hence why I sad a control rider should not be passing noobs in unexpected areas...

I think Pete's point was EVERYWHERE is an "unexpected area" for some noobs.

[Kurlon]

I can confirm that even clean passes on the straight can be startling for new TD riders. I've heard it from a couple people I introduced to the madness, usually right after the first session where people are allowed to run without following an instructor. You get a slower rider without someone to target fixate on pondering down the front scared to death only to have Gixxah-Hero go blasting by at full squid, it surprises the piss out of them, even though they were on opposite sides of the track. The sounds are different (Multiple machines screaming), there's no convenient yellow line to delineate 'my-side, your-side', etc. For some people that first TD is a total mindfuck even with all the padding the various TD orgs put in place to ease newcomers to the hobby. One of my friends just can't get past it and gave up on TDs after two ended early with migraines. The guy is a FAR smoother street rider than I am, but just couldn't get used to the track.

[Doc]

I think Pete's point was EVERYWHERE is an "unexpected area" for some noobs.

I thought Pete's point was I am slow?

Dude, just getting passed while going down the front straight can be an "unexpected area" for a new track rider.

"Unexpected" doesn't necessarily mean "dangerous" or "illegal" in any way shape or form. And it doesn't necessarily have to SCARE them or startle them, either, it can just be "Oh... hmm... didn't expect to get passed there. Ok."

I dare say, if you talked to your beginner group and asked them to count how many times they got passed when and where they didn't really expect it, that number would probably be much bigger than you'd think. (With that said, I probably WOULDN'T ask them to do that as they've got enough to think about already, but if they did, I bet you'd be surprised with the results.)

What I was getting at is that a staff member should not be making routine passes in non passing zones. That would help with the unexpectedness. I said nothing about "scare or startle".

"Unexpected area" would mean in a non passing zone as put out in the Rider Meeting.

[StrayNut]

"Unexpected" doesn't necessarily mean "dangerous" or "illegal" in any way shape or form. And it doesn't necessarily have to SCARE them or startle them, either, it can just be "Oh... hmm... didn't expect to get passed there. Ok."

That's pretty much it. I don't remember exactly where - not the front straight, but I think one of the other legal areas. They left plenty of space, it wasn't scary... just wasn't expecting it because passing had been only on the front straight otherwise. The very first time I was passed (during an open lap, not during the intro when they move your cluster over and another cluster passes), it DID startle me, but that was on the front straight by another novice. And I got used to it.

"Unexpected area" would mean in a non passing zone as put out in the Rider Meeting.

I probably should have been expecting it, because they did lay out all the legal passing zones in the rider meeting. I think I just forgot.

[Doc]

I probably should have been expecting it, because they did lay out all the legal passing zones in the rider meeting. I think I just forgot.

Nah dude... like Pete says you were not expecting it, and I dare say not used to it until the first couple times it happened. Even if you were riding along going "ok passing zone here, I might get passed, ok now I am not in a passing zone and I am safe" The closing speeds can still be kinda high on the track, especially if you are getting passed by Peter...

That is why the Passer is the responsiable one and needs to make a good clean pass in an accepted passing zome.

[nhbubba]

You get a slower rider without someone to target fixate on pondering down the front scared to death only to have Gixxah-Hero go blasting by at full squid, it surprises the piss out of them, even though they were on opposite sides of the track.

So now following another rider on a track is target fixating?

I gots a lot to learn... this was my plan of action.

[OreoGaborio]

What I was getting at is that a staff member should not be making routine passes in non passing zones.

Well.... That... kinda goes without saying, doesn't it?

[Doc]

Well.... That... kinda goes without saying, doesn't it?

For you and me but not for noobs.

I had my noob track day last year, and was getting passed by EVERYBODY even in the novice group. People were pretty respectful and passed with plenty of space. The few times someone passed me in an unexpected place, it was a control rider. They're control riders for a reason - you can see them riding, you know they know what they're doing, and you just have to trust them. Between the novice rules and the control riders you should do just fine at your own pace.

I may have wrongfully assumed but for me "unexpected place" means something not talked about in the rider meeting/ "Noob" Group class.

It can certainly be unexpected in other areas as well.

[CBR929RE]

hmmmm, anywhere? surely staff have to also abide by any passing rules
Also we sometimes forget ,for a racer a 12" clearance pass is not close but for a new track rider 4' is close.

this is very true. even in the advanced group I try to make my passes really wide and extra safe cause I know some of those guys aren't used to anything even remotely approaching close.

[TTD]

So now following another rider on a track is target fixating?

I gots a lot to learn... this was my plan of action.

Following with your peripheral vision is fine... but we encourage everyone to look past the bike in front of you and keep your main attention up there.

This is especially true in a corner. If you are staring at the bike in front of you, and he crashes, you will likely follow. If you are looking in front of him (through the corner), then the rider in front will likely just slide away from your vision.

[nhbubba]

That I buy. Figuring out where to brake is going to be fear #1 for me.

Hey, in those videos (like G'mans) I see cones tipped over on the inside of corners. Are those suggested apex points or something?

[Chippertheripper]

They are.
You will establish your own brake markers after a few laps. No fear necessary. You aren't likely to go all full throttle right past a turn. Not saying some of us haven't stopped for lunch, but if you can figure out how to slow down to get off the highway, you can go turn laps at nhms.

[nhbubba]

I have the opposite fear; never going fast enough to need to brake at all. This is likely related to a similar noob fear: being the slowest mo-fo around and being 'in the way'.

Not saying I won't get over it, but there it is.

Pardon my living under a rock, but what's stopping for lunch?

[OreoGaborio]

That I buy. Figuring out where to brake is going to be fear #1 for me.

Hey, in those videos (like G'mans) I see cones tipped over on the inside of corners. Are those suggested apex points or something?

Are you afraid of not braking in time on the street?

Generally, when you first start out, fear and self preservation take over LONG before you REALLY need to brake.

I have the opposite fear; never going fast enough to need to brake at all. This is likely related to a similar noob fear: being the slowest mo-fo around and being 'in the way'.

Not going fast enough to need the brakes is perfectly acceptable. I regularly do "no brake drills" where I turn laps using little to no brakes. I actually recommend it for some people as it slows things down and lets your mind catch up.

If you're on "the line" then you're rarely ever "in the way".

[Kurlon]

You won't be the slowest person there. And even if you are, who cares? The point is you've got access to the track to ride whatever pace you want. Stay on a predictable line, don't make any sudden moves and you can putt putt in 1st to your heart's content without bothering anybody.

[Chippertheripper]

Stopping for lunch: blown the corner, crashed, and hung out with the corner workers for a while. Perhaps enjoying a watercress sandwich and a spot o tea.

[nhbubba]

Cool. I'm not much for tea. Think I'll plan on skipping that part of the tour.

Re: Braking on the street. It's like I said:

If/when I get serious about this. I'm going to post up my picture of how the day will go so ya'll can laugh hysterically at me. One thing I know I will have trouble with is braking. I know I brake so little on the street, I simply don't ride that fast. A quick blip down a gear or two and some engine braking is usually all it takes.

I recently swapped front pads on my bike. Bedding them in I was reminded at how little I typically use my brakes. (I need to practice more, be better prep'ed for those oh-shit panic stops in the wild.)

[brady]

Pardon my living under a rock, but what's stopping for lunch?

Chip didn't take this one, so I gotta do it: see Pete's avatar

[nhbubba]

Nice. I actually read that story..

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

With respect to crashing. Is it better to find a cheap bike or is it better to rent a bike and pay for the insurance? Either way I would assume that I'm screwed if I crash but which is better?

So, you are going to get a track-worthy bike cheaper than an SV650?

Just put some sliders on it and knock yourself out. You can't swing a cat without hitting an SV650. It's purrfect. I've been to several TTD's where the total number of crashes for all groups and all sessions is - zero. A "normal" number is a handful. Most people don't crash.

You have been to several Tony's days where there have been zero bikes down in the entire day?

I highly doubt you have been to even one where there were zero bikes down all day.

Tony? Is this true? Have you ever had a day with zero crashes?