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Overtaking advice

  1. #1
    Learning daman's Avatar
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    Overtaking advice

    Howdy!

    I'm a novice when it comes to track riding(have done just a couple of them so far) and am hoping to get some advice on a problem I faced the last time around in Loudon..

    I ride a 600 and have been making steady progress on tackling the track, there was another guy who wasn't as fast through the turns but had a liter bike.

    He would not let me overtake on the turns and as soon as a straight section appeared he cracked open the throttle and pulled ahead. Plus we were advised to not overtake mid turns, it being a track experience session. We could have ended up in a pile if he wasn't expecting it. I ended up backing up to put some distance between him and I so I could take the turns at the speed I wanted to practice at.

    Any and all advice is appreciated!

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  2. #2
    Banned Rambunctous's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Practice/ learn braking skills and learn to go in deeper and you will pass him before the turn. Braking skills are not just jammin on the brakes later. You must apply them in a linear fashion. Progressively appying them from soft to harder to full braking force followed by a linear release. Meaning not just letting go of the brakes. Trail braking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Last edited by Rambunctous; 04-07-15 at 10:18 PM.

  3. #3
    Learning daman's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Ah.. that makes sense! Thank you, I will try it out and report back, much appreciated!

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  4. #4
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Alternatively, pit in but don't go back into the infield. Putt down hot pit to the starter, wait until you know he's in say, T11 and THEN go back out. Instant clear track.

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  5. #5
    Lifer
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Fall back a bit before the turn. Carry more corner speed. Pass him on exit.
    If he's a dick he may still pass you back on the straight. Most aren't dicks though.

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  6. #6
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    As you have found out, passing is more like chess than drag racing. Even bikes of the same HP will present this exact same problem. Plan ahead. I suggest NHBubbas method at first as Rambuntious' late braking advise requires that you have much more talent on the brakes than you probably have as a new track rider.

    You WILL overcook turns and run off track or crash or both if you go out thinking that is the way you will overtake these literbikes. They likely get away from you a bit far on the straight bits to make lunging at them into the turns a smart tactic.

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  7. #7

    Re: Overtaking advice

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Fall back a bit before the turn. Carry more corner speed. Pass him on exit.
    If he's a dick he may still pass you back on the straight. Most aren't dicks though.
    This is also my advice.

    I'd also suggest one of the smoother corners that are a little higher in speed (at Loudon, maybe turn 2 or between 10 and 12). You could use Turns 1 and 1a to catch back up (after the long straight)... plan it right and you'll be close to him by Turn 2 but you'll be going YOUR speed, not his. Hopefully you've learned his line on the previous lap and can set it up for either the left or right side (as you exit the turn).

    At TTD's, we stress that if someone pulls up along side of you - or actually passes you a bit - then you need to let them go. This doesn't mean the rider should slam the throttle shut to let you by, but just accelerate a little less hard so that the passer gets to the next corner first.

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  8. #8
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Busa

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    I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief

  9. #9
    Learning daman's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Thanks a lot everyone, these are very helpful tips! Much appreciated!

    I will try carrying more corner speed and passing on the corner exits, attending first TD on 24th

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  10. #10
    Lifer
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    In my experience T10-11 is the first best place to learn this at NHMS. T2-T3 being another good one. I ride gutless girl-bikes, so T4-6 is normally an option, but not so much for me.

    And I'm just desperate to post this somewhere :

    Overtaking advice-zx14_dust-gif

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  11. #11
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Where's that .gif of Adam blowing both of our doors off between 10 and 11?

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  12. #12
    Lifer
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Overtaking advice-anim-gif

    ^^^ How it's done.

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  13. #13
    Learning daman's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    ^^^ That's amazing!

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  14. #14
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    I never mastered the "fall back and get 'em coming out" technique, I always preferred the brakes even before I was confident with them. The inside of the T3 chute is great because the slow guys on big bikes get bogged down in T1-T2 and then have less of a straight to pull away before T3. If you can carry some speed through T10, you have a similar opportunity on the outside braking for 11.

    Also, remember that pavement transitions almost always feel better on the gas, but beginners will usually stay off the gas until after the transition out of fear. Convince yourself that gas will make it smoother, then you will have a great shot to nip people on the drives out of T3 and T10.

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  15. #15
    Posting Freak Tas's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Quote Originally Posted by TTD View Post
    This is also my advice.

    I'd also suggest one of the smoother corners that are a little higher in speed (at Loudon, maybe turn 2 or between 10 and 12). You could use Turns 1 and 1a to catch back up (after the long straight)... plan it right and you'll be close to him by Turn 2 but you'll be going YOUR speed, not his. Hopefully you've learned his line on the previous lap and can set it up for either the left or right side (as you exit the turn).
    Being a noob myself however, I've done it the way Tony has suggested. I have fun reading the riders lines in front of me and can really tell what their line will be coming out of T2 for example. More times they will come out of this turn slow and tight to the apex but because their corner speed is slow I roll on the throttle and go high up near the wall. It's fun passing those 600's and liter bikes.

    My 2C.

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  16. #16
    Get Weird! maxim_X's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    On a 600 you really aren't going to be too down on power compared with most. I don't have much to add, except that there can be lots to learn from following a slower rider. Also with some patience and a few laps you will know where to take the rider. When you decide to make the pass, make it, don't hesitate, but don't go for a pass you can't make.

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  17. #17

    Re: Overtaking advice

    T Bone the fuck in T1. No I'm jk obviously.

    Drop a gear and disappear? Lol attempt 2 to joke.

    A good place to learn passing in my opinion is T3 but that might not work for you because he might just power up up the hill.

    Letting a small gap and carrying more corner speed through the turn is the best advice. Easily done in T1, 6 and 9.

    On a smaller bike I used to stay behind in T1A gas hard out of T2 to stay as close as possible and hard braking in T3 to pass

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  18. #18
    Learning daman's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Thanks again guys, getting lot of valuable tips here... will try to put it in practice. Hoping Apr 24th isn't rained/snowed out

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  19. #19
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Also important- don't highside trying to get someone on the way out!

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  20. #20
    Lifer isaac_'s Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Quote Originally Posted by daman View Post
    Thanks again guys, getting lot of valuable tips here... will try to put it in practice. Hoping Apr 24th isn't rained/snowed out
    Don't be afraid to ride in the rain. Great way to learn about traction management!

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  21. #21

    Re: Overtaking advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    Also important- don't highside trying to get someone on the way out!
    And what is the most sure-fire way to prevent a high side crash?

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  22. #22
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Make sure you go WOT as soon as possible, and if the rear starts to slide chop the throttle immediately to make an astonishing save?

    Something (not) like that...

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  23. #23
    Lifer isaac_'s Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Click, click, click.... Hold... Click, click, click

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  24. #24
    Learning daman's Avatar
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    Re: Overtaking advice

    Quote Originally Posted by TTD View Post
    And what is the most sure-fire way to prevent a high side crash?
    More gas?

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  25. #25
    Lifer
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    Re: Overtaking advice


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