What were they thinking? - Ascari track Spain

[Marc R]

Came across two promotional videos in the past year, from the track in Ascari Spain. From the wide angle video, it looks like the racing line cuts through two funky chicanes. Thanks to google maps, from an arial view here are the corners...
corner A
corner B

Looks like the original pavement made these corners unrealistic (dangerous, assuming they later added cement to smooth out the apex). I can't imagine the original design intended the racing line transitioning from pavement to concrete. Maybe I don't get it, and this where NESR can set me strait... but you would think you could see it's a bad idea on paper and fix it before paving.

Here's a video of Jeremy McWilliams POV with moto journalists at the track

[OreoGaborio]

That looks like a fun track.

Can't speak of the pavement transitions, but it's not too uncommon to see chicanes like that. Guess it depends on how they coat and texture it. Sometimes it has the same or better grip as the pavement around it, but sometimes it's textured to make you want to go the longer way around.

Either way I doubt it's unsafe. If it is, well, don't ride there

[Marc R]

...Either way I doubt it's unsafe....

Just edited the original post: "dangerous, assuming they later added cement to smooth out the apex".

[Paul_E_D]

Those are designed to slow down F1 cars I believe. Any time you see a V shaped corner, that's a car track design.

[GingahNinjah]

NHMS T12 is of similar design but the cars dont use that chicane probably because it is narrow and transitions onto the lower banking... Thoughts?

[CBR929RE]

they go over a big curb at Barber also.

like Paul said its to slow cars down. the curbing/apron is that wide so they aren't going in the grass. bikes are just narrower so they can straight shoot it.

[TheIglu]

That bike looks fun.

[OreoGaborio]

NHMS T12 is of similar design but the cars dont use that chicane probably because it is narrow and transitions onto the lower banking... Thoughts?

Think it's more because T1 is more dangerous for bikes than it is for cars. Pretty sure that's the origin of the T12 chicane.

[CBR929RE]

Think it's more because T1 is more dangerous for bikes than it is for cars. Pretty sure that's the origin of the T12 chicane.

the car instructor I went for a ride with didn't know exactly but his thought was exactly this. he was actually shocked at first when I said we take that turn. then he thought about it and came to the conclusion that if we didn't we'd be going a lot faster towards T1.

[Marc R]

Thanks for the responses.

From the track's interwebz page, it gives you the impression it started as a gentleman's car track (similar to Monticello NY). For grins I found this video of a car going through the "faux" chicane. Looks like it would get more interesting if two cars wide entered.

Start the video at the two minute mark...

[Tricky Mike]

This made the NESR rounds a few months back, I think(?)
I'd be more worried about the lack of runoff, IMHO, but everybody says that.

[OreoGaborio]

the car instructor I went for a ride with didn't know exactly but his thought was exactly this. he was actually shocked at first when I said we take that turn. then he thought about it and came to the conclusion that if we didn't we'd be going a lot faster towards T1.

We would most certainly be going a lot faster into T1 as well as onto the straightaway, which brings the wall into play a lot more... both exiting T11 and entering T1.

[maxim_X]

I might keep that Superduke R vid in the spank bank for a while.

[OreoGaborio]

That video made my pants tight

[Paul_E_D]

but can it wheelie?

[SVRACER01]

i wouldnt say that the corner is unrealistic with the concrete. just means you gotta slow way down for it. kinda like suzuka. the chicane before the front straight is quite tight. especially when you come at in top gear.
chances are the concrete was put there because cars were cutting the corners. the side effect is that bikes can now straight line it. it still requires you to slow down, just not as much. IIRC, there is a section at barber that you cut 2 corners like this

[Marc R]

My bad I think, my original post was probably not clear...

My unrealistic/dangerous comment was asking NESR to imagine along with me: these corners without the concrete. In particular looking down at the track from the google images: corner A and corner B. Look at the arial view and imagine what the racing line might be without the cement. Raw speculation on my part: could the track originally existed without the cement we see today in these corners?

Today what we see, the racing line is almost a straight shot. Hayden and Williams pretty well have the front wheel up in those sections. The racing line we see today seems safe for most any level of experience.

[xsiliconkid]

the car instructor I went for a ride with didn't know exactly but his thought was exactly this. he was actually shocked at first when I said we take that turn. then he thought about it and came to the conclusion that if we didn't we'd be going a lot faster towards T1.

Quite a few years back (Paul will remember) NHMS had a problem with the exit of NASCAR turn 4 so we had to use the hot pit as our front straight.
Sat first practice -T11 became a (wide open throttle before apex of T11) high speed sweeper onto the hot pit straight... was way-cool but the speed back onto a now even tighter T1 turn was ridiculous high.
Sat second practice and for the rest of race weekend - an air-fence tight chicane was place on the hot-pit right at the start of the wall ....if you entered correct, your outside shoulder hit the air-fence on entry to the chicane.
While it solved all the safety issue the first open session will always be remembered as a very cool high speed T11 onto a long straight..

[SVRACER01]

My bad I think, my original post was probably not clear...

My unrealistic/dangerous comment was asking NESR to imagine along with me: these corners without the concrete. In particular looking down at the track from the google images: corner A and corner B. Look at the arial view and imagine what the racing line might be without the cement. Raw speculation on my part: could the track originally existed without the cement we see today in these corners?

Today what we see, the racing line is almost a straight shot. Hayden and Williams pretty well have the front wheel up in those sections. The racing line we see today seems safe for most any level of experience.

i wouldnt say that the corner is unrealistic with the concrete. just means you gotta slow way down for it. kinda like suzuka. the chicane before the front straight is quite tight. especially when you come at in top gear.
chances are the concrete was put there because cars were cutting the corners. the side effect is that bikes can now straight line it. it still requires you to slow down, just not as much. IIRC, there is a section at barber that you cut 2 corners like this

ill just quote what i said. id say the concrete came after cars started dropping wheels to cut the corner

[SVRACER01]

Quite a few years back (Paul will remember) NHMS had a problem with the exit of NASCAR turn 4 so we had to use the hot pit as our front straight.
Sat first practice -T11 became a (wide open throttle before apex of T11) high speed sweeper onto the hot pit straight... was way-cool but the speed back onto a now even tighter T1 turn was ridiculous high.
Sat second practice and for the rest of race weekend - an air-fence tight chicane was place on the hot-pit right at the start of the wall ....if you entered correct, your outside shoulder hit the air-fence on entry to the chicane.
While it solved all the safety issue the first open session will always be remembered as a very cool high speed T11 onto a long straight..

the cars run something similar as they dont use T12. ive always wanted to try that on a bike

[Paul_E_D]

Hahaa! WOW Graham, there's a blast from the past. Hadn't thought about that weekend in a long time. That airfence chicane was... interesting!

[SVRACER01]

Hahaa! WOW Graham, there's a blast from the past. Hadn't thought about that weekend in a long time. That airfence chicane was... interesting!

interesting like the 3 chicanes they put in NASCAR T1 when LRRS T1 was getting redone?

[GingahNinjah]

Wow sucks I missed that!

[Paul_E_D]

interesting like the 3 chicanes they put in NASCAR T1 when LRRS T1 was getting redone?

Yeah, something like that.

[OreoGaborio]

interesting like the 3 chicanes they put in NASCAR T1 when LRRS T1 was getting redone?

Lol... oh man that was a wild config. Think that was one of the last times you & I raced together.