Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Results 1 to 8 of 8

New Track Design... Cars=good. Bikes=bad.. explain?

  1. #1
    Senior Member catahoulabuldog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Meridinium
    Posts
    495

    New Track Design... Cars=good. Bikes=bad.. explain?


    We are clearly living in a bit of a renaissance for track construction and I for one LOVE IT!

    After seeing this post on Facebook about a new track in western NY cnyrp someone said its not suitable for racing bikes. This stuck out because going back to Monticello (when bikes were allowed) clearly that track was not designed with motorcycle use in mind. Yet It was used for a time to generate revenue and then closed off to bikes. and while it seemed the armco was everywhere I dont recall any serious issues. jumping to more recent events new tracks have been brought online and again it seems that while the tracks can be made track day bike safe (along with riders using their brains!!!) It seems that by design bikes were not figured in... is it simply just a question of costs? not enough knowledge by track owners bringing in car only designers? is the potential for bike revenue not worth figuring in? or is it really cars=good bikes=bad?

    0 Not allowed!

  2. #2
    TWINS! xrocket21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Central Maine
    Age
    38
    Posts
    4,932

    Re: New Track Design and Construction... Cars=good bikes=bad.. explain this?

    Cars and bikes have different requirements, look at NHMS for example, cars and bikes run a different course. T12 I believe cars dip right out onto the nascar oval at turn 4, pushing out to the wall at high speed. Bikes have an extra chicane there that dumps them more out onto the straight so they head down the straight instead of flying out toward the wall. A car pushing wide there and scraping the wall has a lot different results than say a bike high siding and bucking someone into the concrete.

    0 Not allowed!

  3. #3
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    43
    Posts
    5,932

    Re: New Track Design and Construction... Cars=good bikes=bad.. explain this?

    Probably has more to do with cars having a larger market than bikes.

    I agree it's a mistake to not factor in bikes when designing new tracks. It's an additional revenue stream that I think will make a difference in long term viability of all the new facilities popping up.

    0 Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800, 2007 DR650, 2012 WR250R

  4. #4
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    43
    Posts
    5,932

    Re: New Track Design and Construction... Cars=good bikes=bad.. explain this?

    Quote Originally Posted by xrocket21 View Post
    Cars and bikes have different requirements, look at NHMS for example, cars and bikes run a different course. T12 I believe cars dip right out onto the nascar oval at turn 4, pushing out to the wall at high speed. Bikes have an extra chicane there that dumps them more out onto the straight so they head down the straight instead of flying out toward the wall. A car pushing wide there and scraping the wall has a lot different results than say a bike high siding and bucking someone into the concrete.
    At NHMS cars go straight after T11 instead of the tight chicane. The beginning of the pitwall is kinda the apex and the wall on the front straight is the track out point. It happens after Nascar 4.

    Cars do have the option of Nascar 1and 2 instead of the south chicane sometimes. It can be done at 90+ in decent cars if you have the balls. Given those speeds I'm sure it would be Armageddon at the speeds motorcycles would be approaching it at. Cars can only get up to 125 or so before having to brake for T1. I imagine some sportbikes would be at ludicrous speed and a mistake woukd be pretty much instant death without all the airfence/tire barriers.

    0 Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800, 2007 DR650, 2012 WR250R

  5. #5
    TWINS! xrocket21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Central Maine
    Age
    38
    Posts
    4,932

    Re: New Track Design and Construction... Cars=good bikes=bad.. explain this?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    At NHMS cars go straight after T11 instead of the tight chicane. The beginning of the pitwall is kinda the apex and the wall on the front straight is the track out point. It happens after Nascar 4.

    Cars do have the option of Nascar 1and 2 instead of the south chicane sometimes. It can be done at 90+ in decent cars if you have the balls. Given those speeds I'm sure it would be Armageddon at the speeds motorcycles would be approaching it at. Cars can only get up to 125 or so before having to brake for T1. I imagine some sportbikes would be at ludicrous speed and a mistake woukd be pretty much instant death without all the airfence/tire barriers.
    I cant tell you if you just agreed with me or disagreed with me

    0 Not allowed!

  6. #6
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    43
    Posts
    5,932

    Re: New Track Design and Construction... Cars=good bikes=bad.. explain this?

    Expanded on.

    1 Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800, 2007 DR650, 2012 WR250R

  7. #7
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Southwick,MA
    Posts
    2,389

    Re: New Track Design and Construction... Cars=good bikes=bad.. explain this?

    Seems to me that since track car owners are seen as bigger dollar prey than track motorcycle owners, and land size and development money for tracks in the northeast U.S. are hard to come by, when the track planning question is:

    "Would we rather make the next turn HERE, and leave room for a ton of runoff that has to be cleared/graded/planted/and mowed or raked forever, or way OVER THERE, with enough runoff for cars but..."

    The answer is usually: "OVER THERE"

    1 Not allowed!
    Last edited by Imbeek; 10-02-15 at 08:10 AM.

  8. #8
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Waltham, MA
    Posts
    5,835

    Re: New Track Design and Construction... Cars=good bikes=bad.. explain this?

    A lot of "driver's" tracks feature off camber turns as well, which are fine... but not quite as enjoyable for bikes when the whole course is off camber. Of course, cars can also deal with the armco that's been mentioned. Monticello didn't have any issues but they only ran a few days there. It definitely had some sketch areas that without some airbags would eventually cause some serious injury or worse if someone went off there.

    0 Not allowed!

    CCS/LRRS #83

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •