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Track riding improvement plans

  1. #101
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    My hips lock up by the end of the day, so I like to do the opposite of Colin and go easier for the last two sessions. I make more sketchy mistakes when I'm too stiff to move and trying to go 95%.
    This is an approach I support. Go hard until you can't, then don't. My last TD I went into it with 10 days straight of no more than 5 hours of sleep per night. I hit a (proverbial) wall 3/4 of the way through the second to last session. Then when we were in the classroom session I nodded off a few times. Needless to say I opted not to go out for the last session. Way too much at stake out there to go after it when you're not sharp.

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  2. #102
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Sounds like you need to figure out a way to make it through the day without the hip lock business. Being spent before the end of the day is no good.
    Moving my lower body less has helped a bit. I have been trying to increase flexibility by doing a lot of hip stretches too, but I'm not improving much.

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  3. #103
    Lifer
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Moving less has helped my fatigue too. More than I expected it to.

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  4. #104
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave603 View Post
    The wiggle only gets worse as I begin to tire out in a session but i expect with my new setup/finally having a damper on the front will help things a lot.
    The fact that it gets worse as you gets tired is a big red flag that using your arms to move your body is likely the cause. A damper will help, but don't let it mask a bad habbit. Continue to be be conscientious of what you're doing on the bike.

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 08-13-14 at 06:03 AM.
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  5. #105
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Agreed, dampers are largely misused. If you tighten a damper enough to reduce that wiggle, it will actually negatively impact your bikes steering. They should only be used on light settings to reduce the effects of a full on tank slapper IMO.

    That spot 7/8 is pretty much always due to pulling yourself up with the bars. Anticipate it more by getting forward into the acceleration. Body weight in front of the pegs so that the bike is pushing you, not pulling you along for the ride.

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  6. #106
    Lifer Ductard's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Agreed, dampers are largely misused. If you tighten a damper enough to reduce that wiggle, it will actually negatively impact your bikes steering. They should only be used on light settings to reduce the effects of a full on tank slapper IMO.
    Don't most steering dampers have a slow speed setting (that you can adjust easily - usually on the fly) and a high-speed setting (that they make harder to adjust?).

    By your logic does that mean the low-speed setting should be set basically to zero, assuming a tank slapper will be handled by the high speed damping?

    Also, on a related note, the damper connecting rod on my KTM motard is broken and I won't get the parts in to fix it before the next LRRS round. Is it super risky to ride one without? How frequent are TS's on non-dampened bikes (esp motards) at Loudon? As a note, I'm pretty sure the previous owner replaced the stock triple clamp to make the bike less twitchy if that makes a difference.

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  7. #107
    Posting Freak Karate.Snoopy's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Good video by Dave Moss on Rebound


    Plenty more by Dave Moss on Damping and suspension

    Might help folks with adjustable suspension

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  8. #108
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ductard View Post
    Don't most steering dampers have a slow speed setting (that you can adjust easily - usually on the fly) and a high-speed setting (that they make harder to adjust?).

    By your logic does that mean the low-speed setting should be set basically to zero, assuming a tank slapper will be handled by the high speed damping?

    Also, on a related note, the damper connecting rod on my KTM motard is broken and I won't get the parts in to fix it before the next LRRS round. Is it super risky to ride one without? How frequent are TS's on non-dampened bikes (esp motards) at Loudon? As a note, I'm pretty sure the previous owner replaced the stock triple clamp to make the bike less twitchy if that makes a difference.
    Dampers are all different. I don't have low/high speed on mine, so I can't speak to that. My dampers are always set low enough that they don't hinder free movement of the bars. not usually zero, but often just a few clicks.

    The triples should stabilize the front of the KTM enough to ride without a damper, but you will find out exactly where you are pulling on the bars. LOL. Ride smoothly and all will be fine.

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  9. #109
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Mine is so stiff that I have trouble pitting out at NHMS. It is not 'adjustable' but I'm thinking about switching back to 10wt fork oil (from 20 now).

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  10. #110
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Oh jeeze, yeah, I would take it off until it's sorted. That's not helping you learn!

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  11. #111
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    The fact that it gets worse as you gets tired is a big red flag that using your arms to move your body is likely the cause. A damper will help, but don't let it mask a bad habbit. Continue to be be conscientious of what you're doing on the bike.
    i have no damper on mine. when the bike starts to do this its usually my sign that im getting lazy. the only other time it has happened is at race pace. the front end gets so light that tire shimmies a little.

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  12. #112
    Lifer
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    Mine is so stiff that I have trouble pitting out at NHMS. It is not 'adjustable' but I'm thinking about switching back to 10wt fork oil (from 20 now).


    I have a problem with my stabilizer becoming disconnected. I made it through half a day before Oxx pointed out that it wasn't connected. Bike handled like poop through 7-10. Feels like a million bucks with it.

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  13. #113
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    I just switched mine to 5wt oil. I'm curious how 7-8 will be now.

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  14. #114
    Senior Member Dave603's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Do you ride an SV also? Let me know how it feels when u try it

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  15. #115
    Senior Member Dave603's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    The damper that i bought is a pitbull and i havent put it on yet but once i do i am sure like all things will have to be tweeked to perfection

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  16. #116
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave603 View Post
    Do you ride an SV also? Let me know how it feels when u try it
    Yup, I have a $20 gsxr damper on it using the brackets from the guy on svrider

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  17. #117
    Senior Member Dave603's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Hmm do you have the link for him? I might need a bracket made if my pitbull doesnt fit. They said it would fit the gsxr front on my sv but i javent been home to look at it yet. It shipped and in the comments just said gsxr bracket and nothing about sv650

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  18. #118
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    http://svstuff.com/default.aspx

    That is the guy's site, his name is 'Nucular' on svrider. Just to clarify, his brackets are for linear style dampers that mount to the front of your frame (where the fairing stay mounts), and to the lower fork pinch bolts on one side. The GSXR lower triple has a mounting tab for one end of the steering damper, then you would need his "frame bracket" to attach the other side of the damper to the front of your frame. If you are doing any of the TDs this weekend I can show you on my bike.

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  19. #119
    Posting Freak Tas's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Pete, I was looking at you damper back in May at the TTD. I picked up a linear damper and need that bracket for my setup. I remember reading that svrider post. I'm gonna have to re-read it and contact the guy. This will be a winter project for me.

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  20. #120
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tas View Post
    Pete, I was looking at you damper back in May at the TTD. I picked up a linear damper and need that bracket for my setup. I remember reading that svrider post. I'm gonna have to re-read it and contact the guy. This will be a winter project for me.
    Thats a sad excuse for a winter project! Go order the stuff and it will take you 30 minutes to put it on the bike once you get it. The longest part of the process is reading the one page instruction sheet. He sells a few configurations of the kit, if you are not running a headlight you should get the 'S' version, both the frame bracket and fork bracket if you have a standard SV front end.

    Just FYI, the only difference between the 'S' and 'N' versions is how low the frame mount hangs, the stock N headlight has an adjuster that gets in the way if you try to mount the damper completely level. For you the S version will look cleaner. Thats what I'm using on mine.

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    Last edited by Petorius; 08-14-14 at 08:39 AM.

  21. #121
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    So?

    Did your improvement plan improve your times? Nice to talk to you yesterday. You seemed pretty pumped about your work that day, looking forward to hearing about it now you have the "data"

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  22. #122
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Good to see you dude. Im still not where I want to be at Loudon but I think I would be close if I ran in a group where traffic was less of a concern (I was doing the track experience group). Slowing down and working on the fundamentals for most of the day helped a lot, but I feel like I'm uncovering new areas for improvement faster than I'm mastering existing ones. I'm looking forward to your race report, good luck with the rest of the weekend.

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  23. #123
    Lifer backinthesaddle's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Plan for next Thompson day. Ride the bridge area turns better. Think I am too tight inside after first apex and also understand the whole crest then kink line on the front straight better. Have to watch some good video beforehand and tag on to an instructor again.

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  24. #124
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Went to NYST yesterday with a goal of learning to turn right. Well, I still can't turn right, but I sure can turn left. Times dropped steadily all day, leading to a new uptown PB at NYST of 1:47.1. That's 9 seconds down from my previous best from the last TTD there. I also feel "initiated" after sacking up and ripping a huge wheelie over the hill for the first time.

    Got a ton of good passing practice too, mixed with a decent amount of frustration as the big bikes refused to stay behind me on the straight. Top speed on the straight was 107 per qstarz, does that seem low for an SV? It was originally an "N" model, so I think the rear sprocket is 44 tooth.

    Anyway, goal for Thompson in 2 weeks is, once again, learning to turn right.

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  25. #125
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: Track riding improvement plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    Top speed on the straight was 107 per qstarz, does that seem low for an SV?
    Yes, and I don't think the gearing would affect it much. I was able to max out 5th there on my first gen, getting about 122 on the Qstarz with 15/45 gearing. Top speed doesn't mean much though, the corner speeds will easily make up for the straight.

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