What will a trackday tell me?

[stanga5o]

I did a half-assed search attempt, but didn't find my answer.

I've heard that "racing" during a trackday is frowned upon (and can/will get you kicked out) by many trackday organizations. I realize that the lessons learned will greatly improve my riding ability. However, I'd like objective proof of any improvement.

Do you ever get timed laps during a trackday? Otherwise, how would I translate any improved skills into a lap time reduction?

Basically, I want to know how slow I really am. I hear a lot of talk on this forum about lap times at certain tracks like NHMS (where I'd do a trackday). I also hear a lot about how upgraded suspension can shave 1-2 seconds off a lap time or how some person shaved 5 seconds off their times by doing X number of trackdays...

I don't need to know what my lap times are, but I'd be interested to see where I stack up against pro's and other newbies alike.

[csmutty]

A track day is progress, but before you compare yourself to others you first need to worry about independent improvement. You are going to be overwhelmed with the amount of info given to you and therefore will have much to concentrate on besides how fast you are in comparison. If you wish a qstarz lap timer can be purchased. These are preferred as you can't see your lap time instantly while on track but virw it in the pits after the session. This keeps riders from pushing past their limit in order to try to reach that magical lap time.

[e30addict]

You don't need lap times. When you think you're going fast and instructor passes you like you're not even moving you know you still have plenty to learn

Especially if they're on a smaller bike.

[Chippertheripper]

How do you track progress?
Lots of ways. Start with the fundamentals, and progress from there.
Since your new to it, that's what I'd recommend.
Lots of people that talk about dropping seconds aren't racing. And if you aren't racing (other riders or the track itself) then the times really don't mean shit, other than keeping tabs on your own progress.
Concentrating on learning the race line, correct bp, reference points, all the stuff that LEADS to going fast is the way to go. The times will drop from there.

[Garandman]

Caveat: I'm old, dense, and have a bad knee that makes it tough to ride a full 20 minute session. So anyone younger, lighter, more spry, talented or all of the above can do better.

I got a lap timer after my 2nd or 3rd day - bought a QStarz GPS from Loudog. If you want to progress, you really have to get a lap timer because, for example, my best laps were actually 3-4 seconds a lap slower than I thought.

My estimation is that on my first track day like most people I was lapping something over 2 minutes per lap to begin with. By the end of the day I was perhaps 1:55.

I got an SV650S and my times progressed fairly steadily to under 1:50, then to mid to low 1:40's, then took some effort to get under 1:40. I took a half day of personal instruction with Ken on my Tiger 1050 and got down to 1:34 something which is the best I've done at NHMS.

In the end it's all about having fun and I was not necessarily having less fun than guys routinely running in the teens or 20's. I learned a lot about suspension, body positioning, and other techniques that make you a better rider.

[TTD]

As a beginner, you can judge your progress by your group progression too. Eventually, you will pass everyone easily in the beginner group, then move up to the next, etc.

[MaRce1o]

Yeah...what they all said

[stanga5o]

OK, good info. I'm fully aware that I need to focus on the race line, body position, technique, etc. and simply progress. If I never have a timed lap, that's fine with me because I know I'll be a better and faster rider. I would just like to be able to have some numbers to better track my progress.

Granted, I've never even done a trackday and I'm not sure how many I'll end up doing!

So, those of you that have had timed laps (QStarz GPS or otherwise): were these done during a trackday? If so, is there a certain skill/group level that you're allowed to ride at that pace? As a novice, I'm not looking to push myself but I think it would be great to have a good baseline, assuming I do more trackdays.

[TTD]

...I'd be interested to see where I stack up against pro's and other newbies alike.

Until you are passing everyone in the advanced group of a trackday, don't even worry about the "PRO" end of the scale.

As for the other newbies - that is where your group progression will come into play.

However, don't make the common mistake that a lot of newbies make - and move out of the beginner group too soon. Learning "Track Craft" is most important (how to pass safely, how to predict what others are going to do, etc)

[TTD]

It's fine to discuss all this, but you are putting the cart before the horse if worrying about lap times before doing a day.

It's hard to explain, but your own progress will be obvious to you by the end of your first day.

[Rada]

It's hard to explain, but your own progress will be obvious to you by the end of your first day.

You said a mouthfull right there....

[Chippertheripper]

All of the above. But to specifically answer your question, you could borrow a gps laptimer from someone, or if you have an infrared, or get one used, there's usually ONE beacon put out for most td's.

[JettaJayGLS]

Do you have a gopro? If so, you already have a lap timer.

Review the footage and pay attention to the time stamp. At your pace the 10ths you can't measure won't matter and progress will measurable in seconds.

[OreoGaborio]

Lol, yeah there's a LONNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG LIST of things to worry about on your first day before lap times. Things like "which way does turn 1 go?" and "Oh God, where the hell is that bathroom they told me about???"

But with or w/o any means of timing your laps, your own personal progression will like be very apparent. Track familiarization likely being the first.

[Mustang]

So, those of you that have had timed laps (QStarz GPS or otherwise): were these done during a trackday? If so, is there a certain skill/group level that you're allowed to ride at that pace? As a novice, I'm not looking to push myself but I think it would be great to have a good baseline, assuming I do more trackdays.

I didn't use a laptimer until probably my 5th track season (which was my 2nd race season). Progress is immediately apparent by who passes you and who you pass during the day.

If you want to know roughly what is a "fast" lap for your particular bike, many of us can give you a range. If you want to know roughly how fast you're going during the day, ask someone with a camera to follow you for a lap, or ask one of the instructors to do the same. But really, you will likely be quite slow compared to, say, "Expert" level racers simply because there is SO much to think about and focus on. It will feel like you're FLYING, but in reality you're doing laps at half the top guys' speeds.

[PeaPod]

"What will a trackday tell me?" Most likely that you have a lot more to learn. Unless, of course, you have been graced by the hand of some higher power and have an innate talent to decimate track times. Unfortunately, you, I, and 99.99% of the world population probably do not posses this.

I began trackdays fairly soon after beginning to ride. I had about 6-8 months, and 3-4k under my belt. I wanted to increase my skill set exponentially because I was late in the game to riding motorcycles, and the street just was not the place to do it comfortably or at my own pace. I spent 7-8 days in the beginner group just getting my skills set down at the increased speed timing of a more aggressive pace. For me this was enough time begin feeling comfortable and held up by the group, so I moved up to the mid group. Midway through my stay in the beginner group I would have been able to move up, but there were additional skills I still wanted to work on in a more relaxed pace that allows for minor errors and more recovery time. I did not worry about how I fared against the other riders, just that I was learning for myself and making myself better.

So after having progressed into the mid-group, I was able to go out with some friends that had been in the mid-group when I first started. I was quicker than them at this point. Was it because of my time spent in the beginner group polishing some new skills, did they not spend enough time learning the proper skills and just jump in? Who knows, but I think as Tony mentioned above, you will know what you need when you do the day.

Most of us had dreams of being a trackday hero their first day. Most of us learned we were wrong and had much more to learn and many skills to work on. This is what I think you will get from your first trackday.And as a side dish, you will have had a whole hell of a lot of fun, meet some great new people, and have some good water cooler talk for work!

[stanga5o]

I'm fine with not having actual timed laps, especially for my first trackday, first few days, first season, who knows... Riding on the street with other people (which I actually rarely do), you'd probably never know who was the faster/better rider because each bike/road is so different (and of course it's not the right place for it). Thus why I've taken an interest in track days..

I do have a GoPro, so that'll be something to consider.

I know I'll need to learn the "craft" as it was put. Trust me, I'm all about learning! I just think that most people (that actually like going fast) want to know how fast they actually are.

Man, is this winter going to be long...

[TTD]

I just think that most people (that actually like going fast) want to know how fast they actually are.
..

Absolutely! We pick them up all the time!

[stanga5o]

This is exactly the type of discussion I was hoping for! As for the whole "timed lap" thing, it just seems like one of the best measures of rider skill (on a given track and bike), outside of racing.

I know I'm not fast, I know I won't ever be a pro, I don't want to get hurt. I imagine just being able to see where I stand within a given group would be enough for me.

[OreoGaborio]

This is exactly the type of discussion I was hoping for! As for the whole "timed lap" thing, it just seems like one of the best measures of rider skill (on a given track and bike), outside of racing.

It CAN be a good measure.... IF you understand that the information has its limitations.

For the gearheads out reading this it's a lot like a dyno chart. Each dyno is different and it doesn't tell you the whole picture of what the car or bike is truly capable of.

[jasnmar]

I'm by no means "skilled", but am learning.

I know there are guys who are much less skilled than I, who can turn much faster lap times than I. I've been passed by plenty of people who were completely out of control when they did it.

Better lap times do not necessarily reflect rider skill, especially at the "beginner" level. Lap times do roughly reflect how willing the rider is to twist the throttle (again, at the beginner level), which is only one aspect (one that I'm not very good at) of rider skill.

[stanga5o]

It CAN be a good measure.... IF you understand that the information has its limitations.

For the gearheads out reading this it's a lot like a dyno chart. Each dyno is different and it doesn't tell you the whole picture of what the car or bike is truly capable of.

Good analogy.

[tsorfas]

It's like love. It doesn't speak with words. But it will make you feel like you never have before.

[Mr. Kurtz]

Everyone above has covered, in depth, what you can learn, when and how actual numerical lap times may or may not be important. Lots of good info.

If you decide you want to try a GPS lap timer, even for after action review and so you can look back on it someday and say "I can't believe I went X:XX.X on my first trackday," you can rent one here.

[carsick]

It's like love. It doesn't speak with words. But it will make you feel like you never have before.

True, but now I feel a little awkward Sav.

To the OP, think about skipping any kind of timing for your first trackday. You will in all likelihood do many more days, and eventually lap times will become a part of it. I know, it's like not opening a present, even after Christmas. I was about 5 days in when I borrowed a Qstarz, and thought " Oh man, that's slow." You will be overwhelmed with so many other details, and the constant sheer joy of riding on the track! Find a way to measure your fun that's not a stopwatch. It's your first time, enjoy it fully and keep the memories and feelings. Don't go counting the strokes and comparing yourself to others, lest you be disappointed. Swap stories with other folks in your group, and keep an eye out for the regulars that are enjoying your first time excitement too