Using Your Own Bike at a TD

[RyanNicholson]

Why are people so afraid to use their street bike at a trackday? Generally its the people that have not yet done a TD that worry about this and I can see why in a general sense, however in reality it makes little sense. Trackdays are not races, its really nothing more than a SAFER place to learn how to ride YOUR bike better. If you have no fear and no problems taking that bike on a 2 hour cruise on the streets whats the issue with doing a trackday? Its nothing more than a 1.4 mile loop of pavement with no cars, sand, guardrails, intersections, etc.

Because it IS a racetrack there is certainly the possibility of pushing beyond your limits and binning your bike, but that is the last thing anybody at a TD wants you to do. If you keep your head on your shoulders like you would on the street, but take advantage of the instruction and opportunities of a TD you will end the day knowing MUCH more about riding your motorcycle, and will have a MUCH better understanding of how it handles and what it is capable of.

I just think its SO worth learning on the machine that you use all the time, you just have to get over the "its a racetrack, lets race!" mentality.

This is just a general observation, and an interesting winter topic. Thoughts?

[lrrs313]

+1

Having never done a track day (other than the race schools), my opinion may be worthless to some, however.....

The most dangerous thing on the track is your own ego. I'm pretty sure that is the cause of a lot of crashes, I know it's caused me to go down before. If you can control your ego and ride within your limits and know your limits, there is a very good chance you will make it safely through the day without scratching your precious bike.

Just think, the odds are with you. There are a lot more riders at track days that don't go down than there are that crash.

[madkaw]

+2

A buddy of mine called and asked me what's a good liter bike to have. I had to ask why he felt the need for a big bike. He said he wanted to do wheelies with it. I urged him to get a 600 and forget the wheelies and do trackdays with me. His response was that he was apprehensive because he was afraid to damage a brand new bike on the racetrack. HELLLOOOOO!!!! You're afraid to damaging your brand new bike during a trackday but you're perfectly fine pulling wheelies with it? That makes no sense at all.

[Pittenger5]

I think its the unknown factor. I mean, the street you've been on since you were born. Even though it might've been in a car, the sights and sounds dont change. If you dont know the track, you might assume that everyones at full out race pace (the one place I think NESR can be a disservice, too many racers). Then again, my first time at the track I took my street bike to Penguin, I was humbled really quick.

[Doc]

Because it IS a racetrack there is certainly the possibility of pushing beyond your limits and binning your bike, but that is the last thing anybody at a TD wants you to do. If you keep your head on your shoulders like you would on the street, but take advantage of the instruction and opportunities of a TD you will end the day knowing MUCH more about riding your motorcycle, and will have a MUCH better understanding of how it handles and what it is capable of.

You hit it on the head right there.

I believe MANY people think of their bike as more than a machine. It is their baby, it helps them attract the opposite sex, it makes them cool... they saved up (or are in debt) to get this machine and they don't want to be without it.

We go to the track and push it (isn't that the point). My first trackday (on my streetbike) I thought I was going SOOOOo fast. (doing 1:40's) BUT I was learning and never felt out of sorts. I didn't crash.

Some may push a little more to try and prove "something". Maybe trying to keep up with friends (I am guilty of that during a race practice) or maybe trying to show "someone" how fast they think they are.

Hell even when not pushing it on my Ducati and taking it easy trying different lines I messed up and hit the pothole in one and almost wrecked it. Would that happen on the street?

[Kurlon]

DB's got it nailed. My first time at the track was on my ST3, at a Ducati track day. I had no idea what the expected pace was, or anything. I was nervous as all hell about trashing my bike, till they started us off with a follow the leader session, and I realized I set my own pace, just like on the street. After that, no worries.

I later dragged a friend to another track day on his FJR, he had the same initial problem, worrying about his bike. He then psyched himself out once the follow the leader sessions were over, having no experience in traffic like that, and called it a day early. He is still paying off the FJR and just couldn't get that out of his head. He's now got a Ducati Monster rat in his garage, once we get it sorted, IT goes to the track, with no cares if it gets cart-wheeled around as it's already hit the deck multiple times. Should be fun chasing his carb'd 750 with my GS. : )

[Doc]

+2

A buddy of mine called and asked me what's a good liter bike to have. I had to ask why he felt the need for a big bike. He said he wanted to do wheelies with it. I urged him to get a 600 and forget the wheelies and do trackdays with me. His response was that he was apprehensive because he was afraid to damage a brand new bike on the racetrack. HELLLOOOOO!!!! You're afraid to damaging your brand new bike during a trackday but you're perfectly fine pulling wheelies with it? That makes no sense at all.

"I'd rather ride small bike fast then a fast bike slow."

The 600's can wheelie just as well. Tell him to get an older bike or a smaller bike and learn to ride.

[Pittenger5]

The 600's can wheelie just as well. Tell him to get an older bike or a smaller bike and learn to ride.

My single cylinder 650 wheelies better than my 636 did.

[Doc]

My single cylinder 650 wheelies better than my 636 did.

Cause you don't know how to wheelie.

[Cerberus]

Why are people so afraid to use their street bike at a trackday?

Because it IS a racetrack there is certainly the possibility of pushing beyond your limits and binning your bike, but that is the last thing anybody at a TD wants you to do. If you keep your head on your shoulders like you would on the street, but take advantage of the instruction and opportunities of a TD you will end the day knowing MUCH more about riding your motorcycle, and will have a MUCH better understanding of how it handles and what it is capable of.

I just think its SO worth learning on the machine that you use all the time, you just have to get over the "its a racetrack, lets race!" mentality.

This is just a general observation, and an interesting winter topic. Thoughts?

asked and answered.

i've been bitten by the track bug, but i have had a couple very hair raising experiences while on track, and the thought of binning a bike that is financed is disconcerting.

in a car you can learn where the edge of the performance envelope is by crossing the line and its a no fault no foul situation.

on a bike, if you cross the line, it gets expensive all of a sudden.

EDIT: to clarify, expensive is not just potential repair cost, it is recoup time to heal and associated medical bills if relevant, lost wages.. even lost job if you are no longer able to do the job due to injury, etc etc

[Currently]

And can hurt.

If I get hurt on a track day in todays economy, I don't know if I will still have a job after I am healed up. The insurance will pay and the Short term disability will pay ... however, my job is unique enough that they need to replace me immediately.

Having said that, I am less than two hours away from Talledega, Barber and 4 other top of the line tracks. I will be doing trackdays this year as soon as I get a second bike.

[Pittenger5]

Cause you don't know how to wheelie.

I thought thats what you liked best about me?

[Omahastylin16]

i think id be the most concerned about insurance coverage if you really fucked up your bike that you still owe on

[wingerdor]

Remember, NOBODY wants WANTS to crash! I have accepted that it is a possibility that I can live with (Track or Street). It would really suck and I don't like that possible, but I have accepted it and now I can move on and focus on my riding. when I'm on the track, I focus on what to do correctly to enhance my skills, not "How to keep from crashing".

[Cerberus]

Remember, NOBODY wants WANTS to crash! I have accepted that it is a possibility that I can live with (Track or Street). It would really suck and I don't like that possible, but I have accepted it and now I can move on and focus on my riding. when I'm on the track, I focus on what to do correctly to enhance my skills, not "How to keep from crashing".

apples and oranges.

on the street, you ride within the limits of the conditions, being visibility, traffic, legal concerns, road surface condition etc. so crash potential is based largely on factors you have no control over.

on the track you are free of 98% of the concerns you have on the street, so you can explore the limits of your skills, and the limits of the bike (if it is really poorly set up).

to say nobody wants to crash is a like saying the sky is blue.
well, duh.

but the point in going to the track is a combination of having fun and developing skills that (almost) never get utilized on the street, ie, riding on the ragged edge. riding harder and faster, learning that the bike can do things you never dreamed it could, and gently pushing the envelope to learn just where the edge is. Doing that raises the risk level exponentially. Yes, you can just tool around at a very casual pace, but what the hell fun is that? and really, how much do you learn by going slow on the track?
Precious little.

And just to be clear and fair, i have done 4 or 5 trackdays (iirc), and i loved the experience. I would do it again in a heartbeat, BUT, personally my street riding became bipolar.. which is to say aggressive or casual, but no where in between. I don't get the same kind of fun out of street riding as i once did unless i'm going stupid fast. That was always a concern for me, as i was told it could happen, and it did.

[Doc]

apples and oranges.

on the street, you ride within the limits of the conditions, being visibility, traffic, legal concerns, road surface condition etc. so crash potential is based largely on factors you have no control over.

on the track you are free of 98% of the concerns you have on the street, so you can explore the limits of your skills, and the limits of the bike (if it is really poorly set up).

to say nobody wants to crash is a like saying the sky is blue.
well, duh.

I agree...

but the point in going to the track is a combination of having fun and developing skills that (almost) never get utilized on the street, ie, riding on the ragged edge. riding harder and faster, learning that the bike can do things you never dreamed it could, and gently pushing the envelope to learn just where the edge is. Doing that raises the risk level exponentially. Yes, you can just tool around at a very casual pace, but what the hell fun is that? and really, how much do you learn by going slow on the track?
Precious little.

And just to be clear and fair, i have done 4 or 5 trackdays (iirc), and i loved the experience. I would do it again in a heartbeat, BUT, personally my street riding became bipolar.. which is to say aggressive or casual, but no where in between. I don't get the same kind of fun out of street riding as i once did unless i'm going stupid fast. That was always a concern for me, as i was told it could happen, and it did.

I disagree... The point of going to the track should be to learn how to ride better. There are MANY things you can do on the track that DIRECTLY relate to street riding. Learning body position, brake application, smooth throttle inputs, getting closer to the limits of traction, lean angle etc in a safer environment should definately help you ride better on the street.

As for not getting the same fun out of street riding... My street riding is becoming more of a casual affair. I get my jolly's on the track.

[Cerberus]

I disagree... The point of going to the track should be to learn how to ride better. There are MANY things you can do on the track that DIRECTLY relate to street riding. Learning body position, brake application, smooth throttle inputs, getting closer to the limits of traction, lean angle etc in a safer environment should definately help you ride better on the street.

As for not getting the same fun out of street riding... My street riding is becoming more of a casual affair. I get my jolly's on the track.

learning how to ride better is great, but if you ride within the posted limits on the street, body position, brake application and smooth throttle inputs are almost completely irrelevant... hence the relativity to the street is minimal unless you push too hard on the street already. imho.

[tonup]

I am unfortunately one of those that have been on the fence regarding track days. I have for years now wanted to see what more my bike has and what I can learn from a TD. You can only read so many books on positioning and braking until you gotta "try". I understand that accidents do happen and on the road my insurance will cover it, but not on the track, thats my biggest concern next to someone else taking me out. I personally am not looking to break the envelope but push it to a new level. With that said, I have every intention of taking the thruxton out for a TD this coming year. Being self employed I have come to realize that if I work a Saturday to offset riding a Monday then I have to stop whining about the $ aspect and get out and enjoy. My other concern is that it will, like for many of you, become an awesome addiction.

[Doc]

Who says your insurance does not cover it.

Your at a "school" to improve your riding. Or you were in the parking lot.

[Pittenger5]

learning how to ride better is great, but if you ride within the posted limits on the street, body position, brake application and smooth throttle inputs are almost completely irrelevant... hence the relativity to the street is minimal unless you push too hard on the street already. imho.

I couldnt possibly disagree more. Especially in emergency situations, the fact you know the bike can do probably 100% more than you give it credit for, or more than you knew it could before, can make a huge difference.

[Doc]

learning how to ride better is great, but if you ride within the posted limits on the street, body position, brake application and smooth throttle inputs are almost completely irrelevant... hence the relativity to the street is minimal unless you push too hard on the street already. imho.

I couldnt possibly disagree more. Especially in emergency situations, the fact you know the bike can do probably 100% more than you give it credit for, or more than you knew it could before, can make a huge difference.

What he said.

You will brake better, you will move the bike better, you will just ride better. You will get more out of your machine even at the posted limits (or slightly over) and you will do it safer on the street than you had been doing.

[wingerdor]

I'm with you Doc. Just because i know how to ride around on a track and drag my knee doesn't mean i'm gonna do it on the street (that would be stupid) But, I know what I am capable of on the track with me streetbike and some day on the street when things start to go bad, I will have the ability and confidence in my bike, my skills, my tires, etc... to handle it, giving me a huge advantage on the street. Just because you head out for a leasurly street ride, doesn't mean that you won't need the confidence and skills you have practiced on the track to survive.
Anyone who has grown up in the Snowbelt knows that when ever you get a new car or truck, you take it to a prking lot in the first snowstorm and slide it around, so you know what to expect if it happens on the street. (not too mention that it's fun as hell too!)

[tonup]

Who says your insurance does not cover it.

Your at a "school" to improve your riding. Or you were in the parking lot.

Doc just erased my last excuse for not going to nhms for a TD. My wife was wondering what I was going to spend my x-mas money on. All!

[Doc]

I hope to see you there.

[Kurlon]

I'm with Doc and DB also. I can brake in a much shorter distance on the street when required, I know I've got much more lean and turn ability than I did before if required, I can handle the back end breaking loose when required... In other words, all my track skills directly translate to me being a better, safer rider on the street as I've got more options and ability to get out of bad situations than a rider without similar experience.