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Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

  1. #126
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    I hear all that and understand why people say that that. I can't wrap my head around watching shows that take you on a little tour of the manufacturers though. Some of them take bikes fresh off the assembly line and do a dyno run to "verify power".

    My current thinking is a cross between MotoMan wail on it right away and baby it for a 1,000 miles. I just ride it. Larger throttle inputs and higher RPM are reserved until the bike is warmed up, but I don't stress over not going over 4k or 6k for example.

    A lot of things have changed over the years. People say you can't break in an engine on synthetic oil properly. However multiple cars come from the factory with it now and last hundreds of thousands of miles.

    I view the baby it break in stuff much the same way. Old school thinking that hasn't evolved while everything else advanced.
    The strict rpm limit is a shortcut that people can understand and follow, and gets the job done. In reality, with more nuance, high rpm bursts are OK from the start, as long as they are short enough in duration to not build up much extra heat, from the extra friction that you still have until the engine is broken in fully and properly. Modern manufacturing has made the gentle break-in less critical, but has not eliminated the principle or the need entirely. You do what you want, and believe anything you like. I'll stick with actual engineering principles instead of half-baked internet "wisdom", and with the manufacturers' recommendations instead of some random internet mechanic.

    I'm not going to argue this here any more. I've had this argument too many times, and I don't care enough if people want to abuse their own bikes. When I run across this topic, I'll generally put out the good reasoning, so people at least are exposed to the proper practice and the rationale behind it. Then it's up to you.

    PhilB

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    Last edited by PhilB; 05-08-16 at 01:10 PM.
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
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  2. #127
    Lifer
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    FWIW: I'm after a legitimate discussion. Not a side-show argument or anything. If you've posted your thoughts on the subject and are done, so beit.

    I only have one data point, as I've only ever bought one bike new. But I broke it in by the book; very, very gentle for the first 5k or whatever. I had the first service done by the dealer exactly on schedule.. and it burned more oil than I would have liked.

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    Last edited by nhbubba; 05-08-16 at 01:23 PM.

  3. #128
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    The strict rpm limit is a shortcut that people can understand and follow, and gets the job done. In reality, with more nuance, high rpm bursts are OK from the start, as long as they are short enough in duration to not build up much extra heat, from the extra friction that you still have until the engine is broken in fully and properly. Modern manufacturing has made the gentle break-in less critical, but has not eliminated the principle or the need entirely. You do what you want, and believe anything you like. I'll stick with actual engineering principles instead of half-baked internet "wisdom", and with the manufacturers' recommendations instead of some random internet mechanic.

    I'm not going to argue this here any more. I've had this argument too many times, and I don't care enough if people want to abuse their own bikes. When I run across this topic, I'll generally put out the good reasoning, so people at least are exposed to the proper practice and the rationale behind it. Then it's up to you.

    PhilB

    Not as argumentative as you might think.

    I broke one bike in with the Motorman method and the motor popped at 17k. I'm not entirely sure that was because of the break in or more that those motors tend to let go when used how that one was used in general.

    Never the less, I did not break in the Tiger like that, nor did I baby it. I rode it more like a normal human would for quite a while before really wailing on it. Ironically, the triples are known for burning oil, yet mine has only had oil added to it once. That was towards the end of a 5k trip that saw sustained high rpm cruising. It also went from the top of the sight glass to the lower limit, so hardly "burned" much all things considered. For a motor with 28k on it that's not bad at all as far as I'm concerned. That mileage might not be high relative to your standards, but it's high to a lot of people, the ADV crowd non-withstanding. I'd break something in like that again in a heart beat without reservation.

    I believe the Tiger break in was not internet "wisdom", but rather more "engineering principle" as you say minus the input from the lawyers

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    Last edited by e30addict; 05-08-16 at 02:29 PM.
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  4. #129
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    We have a fleet of company cars so we worry about stuff like this (break-in), granted bike engines are much more highly tuned. We even conduct experiments like buying two Honda Accords and running Dino oil in one and Mobil One in the other, for 200,000 miles. Or buy a Cruze diesel and a Cruze Eco (turbocharged gas engine).

    The problem with testing break in routine is that if anything wears out or breaks down the road, you don't know if it was the break-in methodology, a manufacturing defect, or any of a bunch of operating details that caused the shortened life. There is the "Ride it like you stole it" approach, gentle break in with lengthy warmup, and some intermediate approaches. My personal belief is that cold starts create more wear than any other factor.

    We do whatever the manufacturer wrote in their book. As a general rule we take it easy while the engine is cold, don't shut it down immediately after a hard run, don't run for long periods at a steady rpm, but also don't baby it. Some engines have a factory fill that should be changed early, others do a break-in at the factory and have a regular fill. In the end we figure the factory engineers know what's best. We change out the original fill according to the most severe duty schedule but I'm not sure bikes even have that.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 05-08-16 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #130
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Well I'm definitely not babying it, but I'm also not making it a point to try to go over 6k. I have already a few times (it comes up FAST with 160HP), and the shift light didn't like it too much, as it's preprogrammed for 6k for the first 600 miles.

    Whatever the case I'll go by what the company recommends, as I'm sure at some point they had input by the engineers who designed the LC8. What they don't say anything about is how much you flog it below 6k though...all bets are off there.

    Oh and I fucking love this thing. It's a total hoot, it fit 7 bags of groceries tonight and my ass and hands were nice and toasty the whole way.

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    Last edited by SRTie4k; 05-08-16 at 08:22 PM.
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  6. #131
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    ... What they don't say anything about is how much you flog it below 6k though...all bets are off there. ...
    The main thing is not to let it get too hot. So low rpm flogging is OK, as long as you're not lugging the engine, and as long as you keep it to shorter rides.

    PhilB

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  7. #132
    364 Beers Shy of a Liter Trajiks9's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    Well I'm definitely not babying it, but I'm also not making it a point to try to go over 6k. I have already a few times (it comes up FAST with 160HP), and the shift light didn't like it too much, as it's preprogrammed for 6k for the first 600 miles.

    Whatever the case I'll go by what the company recommends, as I'm sure at some point they had input by the engineers who designed the LC8. What they don't say anything about is how much you flog it below 6k though...all bets are off there.

    Oh and I fucking love this thing. It's a total hoot, it fit 7 bags of groceries tonight and my ass and hands were nice and toasty the whole way.
    Not to mention you could probably keep up with the best of them on that sleeper. The bike truly is the "grocery getter" that anyone couldn't love! "Honey I'm going to the store for milk."
    Super stoked that you're enjoying it. Looking forward to seeing it in person.
    Oh, and BTW it might be time to start pricing new rear tires. Given the addictive burst of acceleration these bikes offer and the massive grunt of the big twin, tires tend not to last long. Don't ask how I know.

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  8. #133
    Lifer
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    I remember getting 3-5k out of a rear on my (antique, air cooled, ho-hum ~100HP) 1200 if I rode sedately. This is one of many reasons why I constantly talk myself out of owning another liter+ bike.

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  9. #134
    Lifer markbvt's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Ironically, the triples are known for burning oil, yet mine has only had oil added to it once. That was towards the end of a 5k trip that saw sustained high rpm cruising. It also went from the top of the sight glass to the lower limit, so hardly "burned" much all things considered. For a motor with 28k on it that's not bad at all as far as I'm concerned.
    For what it's worth, my Tiger never really needed oil added till it had somewhere over 40,000 miles on it. Then it started using a little, mainly later in the oil's life and on long higher-RPM stints like lengthy highway rides. Not much has changed now at 88k. I don't think it actually burns any significant amount of oil; but there's definitely a little oil weeping past some gaskets and then vaporizing on the engine case. Never enough to collect and drip though.

    And my break-in method was also to ride fairly normally, just avoiding any long periods of constant revs.

    --mark

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  10. #135
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Not that the production and race bikes have a lot in common but the Honda seems pretty rigged....


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  11. #136
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    It only took 3 days of ownership to realize I shoulda taken them up on the discounted Akrapovic, so I contacted Hank at Freedom Cycle yesterday and asked about ordering that and a single piece ergo heated seat, and he honored our originally discussed price and gave me a good discount on the seat as well! I can't say enough great things about how him and the guys over there have treated me, in an industry that lives and dies by tight margins they really bent over backwards to accommodate me. I'd definitely recommend anyone looking at new bikes to give him a call.

    Just rolled a bit over 300 miles today and man does this thing give me the biggest smile riding. It's really brought the fun back into riding for me. It does everything exceptionally - it's comfortable and tame when need be, it's super practical, but when you want it to tighten up and become a sport bike, it'll do that amazingly well too. I accidentally ripped a big wheelie yesterday coming over a crest on my way into work, and expecting the front end to smash back down into the ground on re-entry like my TL would, I was pleasantly surprised to realize that the front with it's 8" of travel ate up the landing like it was just a small bump in the road. Oh and the gearbox seems to have "loosened up" a lot since I got it, i.e. neutral is much easier to find now.

    Man I love this thing. I can't wait to go on some longer rides with it.

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    Last edited by SRTie4k; 05-11-16 at 06:21 AM.
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  12. #137
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Hmmm. Accidental wheelies. LOL. Now you just need to try some of this: Beware of the Giant Roost from Chris Birch's KTM 1190 ADV - ADV Pulse

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  13. #138
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    It may not have been so accidental, unless you're a cop...

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  14. #139
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    I just rode my adventure/st bike for pretty much the first time since Colin crashed it.
    What a joy that thing is. I should make it a point to justify owning it, and maybe ride it a little more.

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  15. #140
    Lifer
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    I'd be happy to crash it again if you think it would help. I'm here to help. I'm a helper.

    I've ridden the ol' trusty wee-strom to work 3 days this week, plus p'mouth moto night last night. Just ticked over 49,000 miles this morning. Nothing like rolling comfortably at 80, railing an interslab off-ramp with the throttle buried, then getting sideways on a class 6 just a few min later.
    If I had to say g'bye to all my toys except one, this one would stay..

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  16. #141
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    I'll let you smash it up again. You know I'm cool like that.

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  17. #142
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Day 2 of riding my Wee into work this week. It's a pleasant machine.

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  18. #143
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    The new Wee Adventure actually looks pretty nice too. FINALLY. lol

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  19. #144
    no can kneedown feralchimp's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Given the speed with which the rider was back up and riding, I'd say the race pilots are pretty rugged too. F'n gnarly.

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  20. #145
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Dirt don't hurt.

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  21. #146
    Member No Quarter's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I've never met a dealer that was willing to let me demo a bike on demand. Not one. It must be me.

    KTM demo days are very limited. IIRC there were only two in our area last year. And they do a poor-IMO-job publicizing the demos. I haven't been able to find anything about 2016 demos.
    You know I got an 1190 S recently, and you also know where I live. Demo ride whenever you want Bubs.

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  22. #147
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    If it helps, Americade this year has the theme "Dirt Days" and they're supposed to have a pretty big selection of adventure bikes for demoing, including the Africa Twin, the Super Tenere, and several KTMs. The schedule kinda sucks (I believe the AT demo is on a Tuesday of all days), but it might be a good excuse to take a day off.

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  23. #148
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    Got my Akrapovic can and 1-piece ergo heated seat on.



    I was a bit worried that for the cost, the Akra wouldn't have "enough" sound to it, but boy was I wrong, it sounds amazing. It's got a deeper rumble at idle, but isn't anywhere near annoyingly loud like some cans. Sounds very nicely tuned for that deep thud of the big pistons. Mounted up in 20 minutes, the only trouble I had with it was the holes in the carbon fiber heatshield didn't line up very well. A quick hit with a file took care of that, but for the cost this shouldn't be a problem.

    As for the seat, it's WAY better than the stock seat. If you push to the back of the seat, it's shaped like a pan, but at the front it narrows down considerably compared to the stock seat. Despite being 15mm taller, it feels like the stock seat at stock height due to the narrow front. I can easily see eating up hours of road time on this seat, it's nice and comfy. And the heating element in this seat is a blast furnace even on the minimum setting, I can't imagine the high setting. Seems like I might sterilize myself at that level.

    Just broke the break-in period yesterday and proceeded to immediately go straight to redline. This bike is scary fast. It's got so much power the front doesn't feel like it's actually touching the road half the time, I've already gotten one small headshake. From what I gather, the stock steering damper is pretty much useless (it feels that way too, shake the front end and there's no resistance), so I'm going to get on a advrider group buy for a Hyperpro RSC. I need something a little more substantial considering this bike has a tendency for front end wobble. I think I can justify $300 for the reassurance that I'm not going to get a tank slapper.

    Still waiting on top box, backrest and pannier liners, they're all on backorder. And first service is in 2 weeks.

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  24. #149
    Lifer
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    I'm kind of surprised you feel the need for a heated seat on that machine. All reports I've read regarding the "little" brother 1190 say that those highly tuned twins put out a bunch of heat. Most reports complain of too much heat on the thighs and seat pan. Seems that was one of the minor fixes on the '16 1190. Probably addressed right out of the gate on the 1290.

    Dear lord does that thing look beastly!

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  25. #150
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on adventure/ST bikes

    My what a big can you have! Looks sweet. I don't think the front tire will need changing often. I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade the damper either. 300 is peanuts compared to an off.

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