Went down again-I need advice

[s a x m a n]

the sooner you realize the 99.9999% of crashing is your fault and nothing to do with the bike ... you become a better rider

[burnham]

The culprit isn't tires, pavement, or the motorcycle. Probably small factors, but it's the rider who's fucking things up. Four crashes in 2k mi sums it up. Lack of experience.

[OreoGaborio]

I'm asking the impact new pavement and cool-ish tires have on the possibility of front wheel lock

Well DUH! It reduces the amount of traction you have available. I thought you found that out the hard way already

[Degsy]

Thoughts I had after reading your post.....
1- In order to get better you need to admit fault, and stop with the excuses.
2- Take the MSF class again.
3- Riding for 15minutes won't necessarily warm up the edges of the tire.
4- "Practicing" what ever that is, is best in a track or at the very least a parking lot.
5- Counter steer, they never taught me that in MSF but Nick, ff36buell, did. You find your self on the brakes much less.
6- Engine brake more often.
7- Ride at your capabilities and don't push the limit.

2. Won't help, he already stated he passed. Maybe an ERC, but not a BRC.
3. Tires warm up pretty much evenly. if the center is warm, the edges are.
5. What MSF did you take? remember "press to turn"? Countersteering. Very confused here. How does countersteering keep you off the brakes? You should be done braking by the time you are turning.

derek

[Degsy]

temperature and pavement do not lock up the front tire

Yep, it's all in the braking. That said, they make a big big difference in how easily it will lock up though.

[RandyO]

Any and all advice welcome

don't expect to become an expert overnight, in 1000 miles or 5000 miles or even 50,000 miles


the are no set rules of reaction, every road surface, every traffic situation is different,

learning to operate the bike is easy, you also need to learn to read the roads surface, how to anticipate hazards

learning to panic stop is not as important as learning how to avoid panic stops cause no matter how good you are, pannic stops are always close to the edge of control, shit happens when you are at the edge of control

the only thing that will make you better is seat time, stay within your abilities

[ScooterRash]

Damn, I thought I was on "Gixxer.com" for a while there!

[NEWTREADS]

Ok so I didnt read all the posts on this one. Soap did you Get that tire howling/chirping bit from a book? Sport riding techniques by Nick Ienatsch? There is mention of that in there. If so re-read the traction points section. 100 points that get divided between acceleration,braking and cornering. As far as the tires giving the heads up. Howl/chirp? WHatever? The stock dunlops I had didn't do that. They sounded like a hockey puck sliding on the ice. They grabbed the same way too. Anyway I have been running bt14s and they do make noise. I guess the compound and or tread pattern will have something to do with that. New pavement I find that I drift a bit in turns so yea maybe a bit less traction to be found. Your description was kind of confusing. When you squeesed the front brake did your wrist bend enough to let the throttle all the way off? Did you also squeese the clutch? I made that mistake once my first year riding. Had 1 finger covering the brake. When I had to get on the brakes in a turn I wasnt all the way off the gas and the rear wheel kind of pushed the front one along for a second.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

Use your legs, Grip the tank tightly with your legs (very easy on an f4I) When you apply he front break you are transferring your weight into the tank lower on the bike. if you lock your arms you are tranferring the weight directly to the handle bars to the forks bottoming out the forks and your sliding.

whatever you doing you need to get it together before you get yourself hurt.

[Jim]

stop blaming the pavement! the pavement didnt crash four times in 2k miles!

This is definately something I would have expected to read on a GSX-R site. Right Chris?

[The Crashing Tomato]

+1 newtreads

I was 25 once ........ once. ya can't fix stupid ....in all 4 of these crashes there was one consistant fact .... YOU ..... I didn't see, I did this when, when I was doing this, what makes you think there was not one more thing you didn't see or do in the 4th crash

A. we all have learned that your good at this crashing thing ... try "practicing" something else like hmmmm maybe NOT CRASHING( : )

[ZX-12R]

As you go faster, you can use more brake because there is less weight on the front, giving you more tire to use. At a low speed it is much easier to get around 100% of the weight on the front tire, and overload it.

Say what batman? More weight on the tire allows you to brake harder. The primary reason why you can brake harder at higher speeds is because there is exponentially more energy in the wheel than at lower speeds.

[Awesome]

You've been riding how many months and crashed how many times all with excuses? Sell the bike or get a life insurance policy, you're not going to last long.

[Crash Dummy Denno]

You've been riding how many months and crashed how many times all with excuses? Sell the bike or get a life insurance policy, you're not going to last long.

i agree

[richw]

I think as your front tire was skidding it drifted off center .

When it started to rotate it hooked up and that wrenched the bike sideways that threw you down.

This is the front version of highsiding. skid, hook up, spit you off.

I applaud you practicing panic stops. Better you could have been but that is the number 1 thing that will help you not get killed in a real situation.

MOST modern sport tires are so soft they will not chirp or screech before lock up. Not a good guide.

I suggest trying to scoot backwards in the seat which will lessen weight transfer.
CAREFULLY introduce a TINY amount of rear brake. Rear brake in the real world will help straighten the bike and lessen stopping distances like 15%.


Lastly I like to practice panic stops to like 10 MPH then you can still maneuver (quickly change direction) to avoid the impact with an object.


The other weedhopper is to LEan lean then lean somemore. Practice in some open area get used to leaning. When you almost miss a turn you should lean over rather then fixate on the grass. Mostly you will make the turn and raise your pulse. If you go down it will be a low side with the bike ahead of you.... better for solid objects in your path.

[The Crashing Tomato]

1. get new sneakers .... pirelli michy metz .... spend the money and get a set.

2. you better check yourself before you wreck yourself ....again

3. you will wreck again .... someone said it earlier "99% of all crashes are from rider error" ... and "you can never be prepared for every situation" ... and I add, "you can't practice luck"

4. ask a stunna the same question and you'll get another ass poundin with one exception lower your tire pressure

5. when a real emergency braking situation happens (pushing the limit of you and the bike) there are very few here or anywhere really that wouldn't experience the same outcome ... front end washout due to all the factors mentioned ( old tired tires, temp, bad rider input, loose pavement, etc.....)

6. "you look down you go down", some one here has this quoted how true ....how true


these ARE THE ANSWERS to your question. if you choose to accept this answer you should do so humbly. the members on this thread are some of THE BEST in N.E. TRUST THEM

[markbvt]

I'm not looking for general "be a better rider" advice - I do not need this. I'm well aware of the mechanics of braking, counter steering, engine braking etc, and I do all often - the problem is not my skill level per se, but the cause of my front wheel lock up in this case

Everyone here has given you good advice. The problem is PRECISELY your skill level. You've already admitted that you're inattentive and hasty -- even though you claim that in this last case you were alert and had ruled out all the variables, clearly that's not true. If you keep trying to convince yourself that your skills are good and the bike/tires/pavement are responsible for your frequent crashes, then you're going to wind up dead or severely injured.

Realistically, a 600 is too much bike for you at this stage, but I know you're going to ignore that. So at the very least, put a new set of tires on the bike. At least that way you'll know how many miles they have on them and what their history is.

And then follow the other advice people here have already given you.

--mark

[Billy]

You said that your tire was old but had tread left. I'm far from being an expert in these matters but maybe your tires need to be replaced with some fresh rubber.

Tire rubber deteriorates over time even if you don't use them (dry rot for example).

[imkindafkedup]

2. Won't help, he already stated he passed. Maybe an ERC, but not a BRC.
3. Tires warm up pretty much evenly. if the center is warm, the edges are.
5. What MSF did you take? remember "press to turn"? Countersteering. Very confused here. How does countersteering keep you off the brakes? You should be done braking by the time you are turning.

derek

2) Memory refreshments are always good. And its a good time/place to practice . they also have the next level class which may help as well.
3) sure
5) I took one at 128 class and it was never mentioned. I find since counter steering I have been able to take corners faster and not brake as much. If he's not counter steering he is braking a lot going into or during mid corner to take away from his entrance speed. The weight of the bike at speed will be more evenly distributed on the front tire and may keep him off the brakes a little that way he won't be locking up.

[hammadown]

You've been riding how many months and crashed how many times all with excuses? Sell the bike or get a life insurance policy, you're not going to last long.

+1 you need a new hobby, MCing doesnt seem to be for you. However if you really like it, I might suggest trying your hand at MotoGP racing......





















the video game

[Jim]

the video game

[Nix]

Thoughts I had after reading your post.....
1- In order to get better you need to admit fault, and stop with the excuses.
2- Take the MSF class again.
3- Riding for 15minutes won't necessarily warm up the edges of the tire.
4- "Practicing" what ever that is, is best in a track or at the very least a parking lot.
5- Counter steer, they never taught me that in MSF but Nick, ff36buell, did. You find your self on the brakes much less.
6- Engine brake more often.
7- Ride at your capabilities and don't push the limit.

Word. Smahten up dude.

[Nix]

[QUOTE=TESTINGurTOMATO;430095]1. get new sneakers .... pirelli michy metz .... spend the money and get a set.

2. you better check yourself before you wreck yourself ....again

That's chick-checkity Tomato.

[Kham]

There is a time and a place to practice ... the street is rarely the place or the time.

comon Joe, the minitrack is the only place for poor bastard like me to practice.

[Kham]

easy... stop riding under 60 degree.