New African Twin Maybe 1200cc

[gixxer72]

Chip, you have to actually ride it to claim its easy to live with.

Motherfuck this is my problem lately and why I'm in this thread. I put 9 miles on my gsxr this year, in May. 9.
I rode my cr125 twice. I need something new to reignite but it hasn't popped up yet...
I bought 3 quads this year, one didn't even get ridden so that's not the answer. Wtf

I spent over $400 in batteries this year too which sucks considering their longevity.

[nt650hawk]

Watch "I’ve ridden Honda’s new Africa Twin" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/Fz3y0_wqH5Q

[Spooler]

Hmmm
is set at $12,999 for the base model, and $13,699 for the DCT version

I feel like Honda should be pricing their DCT bikes below the manual model if they really want them to catch on, even if it means taking a loss on those units. It seems like it's mostly available on bikes aimed at more experienced riders, and I can't see a whole lot of them spending extra for a feature they don't really want or need... Maybe if it saved them $500-$1000 some would go for it and decide they like it.

[nt650hawk]

No fancy shimming valve adjustment! Old school with new school rollers.. still carrying some old school traditions

Watch "Honda Africa Twin 2016 Engine DCT EICMA" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/UAvXDSIdGfU

[nhbubba]

Valve design probably also contributes to the relatively low 8k rev limit.
Also look at the angle on the intake off the throttle bodies. Looks easy to work on, but not necessarily optimal.

[nhbubba]

CRF250L with a CBR500R engine in it.



CRF500L full build thread | Adventure Rider

Ooooh Roland.. we just want to borrow your bike for a minute.

[nt650hawk]

I'm actually thinking of upgrading the street Hawk.

[reks95]

The engine in the 690 duke is up to 75hp and the reviewers are claiming stunning buttery smoothness and effortless highway riding.
I can't imagine it won't end up in the Enduro R.
75hp in a bike that weighs around 320.
Oh Em Gee.

[Chippertheripper]

Chip, you have to actually ride it to claim its easy to live with.

I rode it, you crashed it...

[Kurlon]

No fancy shimming valve adjustment! Old school with new school rollers.. still carrying some old school traditions

Watch "Honda Africa Twin 2016 Engine DCT EICMA" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/UAvXDSIdGfU

Shim under bucket on the intakes. Standard Honda Unicam like they use on the 450R.

[Paul_E_D]

OK, I certainly don't understand the clutch. Is there a vid somewhere that explains it?

[TheIglu]

The metal plates are large and cut away in that shot. The fiber plates are left whole.

[Paul_E_D]

Oooooh, I see. The cut away plates threw me off.

[nt650hawk]

skip the first 2:45

[Paul_E_D]

Thanks. So in that vid, the gears are not preselected? they seem to shift simultaneously. How is that better?

[Chippertheripper]

Thanks. So in that vid, the gears are not preselected? they seem to shift simultaneously. How is that better?

"Better" is relative.
I could see myself enjoying a dct bike, to be truthful. Necessary, definitely not, but if I wanted a specific model, I don't think the dct would deter me. Fuck, that makes me sound old.

[Kurlon]

Thanks. So in that vid, the gears are not preselected? they seem to shift simultaneously. How is that better?

The lack of a constant preselect is to save wear and tear on the clutches I bet. The system can still shift / transfer faster / smoother than a traditional single clutch setup, but it won't be as quick as a preslected system. Lil from column A, lil from column B... The bike is still going to anticipate shifts, so as you're wringing it out, I bet it preshifts a touch ahead of the actual shift point. Same on downshifts.

[nhbubba]

Went to the IMS in NYC yesterday. They had two Africa Twins on display; one silver DCT with all the Honda accessories bolted to the ground on a faux off-road incline like it was conquering the sahara. The other a red/white "CRF" motif manual with nothing on it. The big screen display behind the booth was playing the AT marketing clips on endless repeat. I leg humped both a bunch of times. Extra fun that BMW and the other makes were all there. I was able to walk around and climb on the F800GS, F800GSA, 1190 ADV-R and a plethora of other similar bikes.

The Honda impresses me a lot. Off the side stand it *feels* lighter than the spec. I tend to hold a blind eye to BMW as I am preconceived to think the brand is too expensive and too prone to problems for my tastes. But the AT feels damned close to the 800GS in person. The weight. The ergonomics. Even the styling to a degree. The AT is not revolutionary. However, it is a Honda and not a BMW. All things being equal, I still gravitate towards the Honda. Take that preconception whichever way you like. The 800GS and AT are very similar in fit and finish. Both had their factory plastic bags on for demo and the plastic bags are comparable. The BMW bags may be a little nicer with the clasps and such. BMW seems to have a bit more polish on the accessories, but not by much, the Honda accessories are nice too. The GSA had the all aluminum BMW cases and those are clearly superior to either.

Sitting on the KTM 1190 after the AT the KTM feels gigantic. It feels taller at the steering head and the tank is much more in your face. The AT actually feels slimmer at the waist than the 1190.

The Yamaha S10 feels like a boat compared to any of these ADV offerings. And the BMW 1200GS feels like the iceberg that sank the titanic.

One of the "first look" reviews I read commented that the AT feels "compact". Not sure what the hell that means, but I don't feel it. The ergos are nice and the bike feels slim at the front of the seat. The tank isn't as large as the 1200's and there feels like there is less machine in front of you than some of the others. But the bars are wide and there is definitely a full stack of instruments in and plastic in front of you; nothing like the real dual-sports like the CRF250L.

I sat on a new DL650X (V-Strom with wire wheels) and it feels comparable to the AT. The AT actually feels a little narrower. And the steering is lighter than the DL. I'm guessing a 21" front with narrower has a lot to do with this by itself. The switchgear on the AT is much nicer than the Suzukis. Definitely on par with the Euro makes.

Also on display was the VFR1200x.. which feels quite wide and heavy. That bike definitely has a more street bias. I think it's awesome that Honda has an offer for both ends of the "adventure" spectrum.

The ATs on display must have been some sort of pre-production units. I am pretty sure the headlights were fake and I'm not sure the instruments were hooked up. If they are final units, they did a helluva job hiding the electrical components in the front facia. Different vibe than my DL as you can see all the wiring looms loose on the backside of the fairing when you look past the top triple. Way more polish on this than my DL.

Overall the AT impresses me as much in person as it does on paper. I'm very excited about this model. I'm not insane enough to go pre-ordering or any of that. But I am saving my pennies.

[nhbubba]

Honda had a DCT NC700 tied to a roller stand with a guy offering test rides. The line was long and I think they wanted to swipe your ID steal your contact info to spam you, so I didn't try'er out. The roller stand seemed like a half-ass demo anyway. But it was interesting to watch people try it. Several women got on and reacted positively. Some guys I'd class as cruiser/touring types did as well. One younger, clearly sport rider was completely befuddled by the system. He kept trying to manually shift it even in auto mode. I stood around joking with some random strangers; a lot of us agreed that it wasn't for us. Seemed like a very hit-or-miss thing. You either want it or you don't.

System does seem to work well though. They made the shift and mode select controls intuitive. Not an afterthought.

The one thing I don't understand is the parking brake lever. It's where the clutch lever should be. Seems like a horrible accident waiting to happen. Honda sales rep insists the lever is far enough forward that you can't grab it like a clutch. He all but called it idiot proof. I wonder if they tested the idea against the right crop of idiots.

On the roller, the shifts seem to be instantaneous. Although I'm still not sure they are any faster than a gentle nudge up on the lever combined with a throttle blip.

Meh, manual for me please. This is a bit of a fix in search of a problem.

[nhbubba]

[SVRACER01]

Sitting on the KTM 1190 after the AT the KTM feels gigantic. It feels taller at the steering head and the tank is much more in your face.

that doesnt surprise me. the 1190/1290 is a BIG bike.

The AT actually feels slimmer at the waist than the 1190.

that may be because there isnt a 650cc cylinder pointing backwards on the AT.

One of the "first look" reviews I read commented that the AT feels "compact". Not sure what the hell that means, but I don't feel it. The ergos are nice and the bike feels slim at the front of the seat. The tank isn't as large as the 1200's and there feels like there is less machine in front of you than some of the others. But the bars are wide and there is definitely a full stack of instruments in and plastic in front of you; nothing like the real dual-sports like the CRF250L.

you just described "compact"

I

[nhbubba]

[nhbubba]

that doesnt surprise me. the 1190/1290 is a BIG bike.

The 1290 is, yeah. But the 1190 has been called "flickable" and "agile" and all that. "A 140 HP hooligan dirt-bike" and such. This Honda feels narrower, just as light. (That is good.)

By the way, the 1290 is a much bigger bike than the 1190 in person. Lined up at the same booth the 1290 seems enormous. And the Duke 1290 seems huge too.

that may be because there isnt a 650cc cylinder pointing backwards on the AT.

It would be impressive of Suzuki to make a 650cc twin with one 650cc cylinder.

Generally the v-twins are well regarded as being thin machines because of the cylinder layout. Our SVs, the DLs, the KTMs.. all thin and feel agile because the engine is tucked entirely within the frame and centralized. I was down on this Honda because it is a parallel twin. Often (Versys, EX650 for example) the bike feels wider with an across-the-frame config. This Honda doesn't. It *feels* as narrow or narrower than the V-twins, even of lesser displacement (ie the DL650).

I like it. It is good.

you just described "compact"

Alright then. The review I read is bullshit then; the CRF1000 is not "compact".

[Chippertheripper]

The grey is really nice looking.

I think this an appropriate time to say: I REALLY love the first gen 800gs. With suspension work AND a can/mapping I think it could be the bike you all are looking for, unless you are really hung up on hp.

Edit: and I only make this ^ point because some of you elude to looking for a cheap out.

[TheIglu]

Just let him buy one!

I want to ride one and NOT on a stupid demo ride at 30mph. This is my chance.

Bubs, you want the DCT..... YES YOU DO. Think Star Wars mind control. Or Star Trek mind control. Or Avatar mind control. I don't know, whatever sci-fi garbage you subscribe to. Anything that makes you want to get one so I can try it. Think of it as good paddle shifters on a high end sports car vs a stick. Or think of it as freeing up a hand and foot to be able to do other things while riding. Or think of it as something that will make you look like James Bond for a reason I have yet to determine.


In the very least, make sure you at least try out the DCT before you bring the new girl home. If you try both and still think the manual is better, your choice will be supported. If you try the DCT and are surprised, you'll be glad you did.