New African Twin Maybe 1200cc

[nhbubba]

I'm kind of lukewarm on lanesplitter, but I think this must be the least kiss-ass review I've read yet:
Ride Review: The 2016 Honda Africa Twin Is Exactly What We’ve Been Waiting For

Also the first review I've seen that mentions the BMW or Triumph 800's.

Summary seems to be that he thinks it's a great motorcycle and a direct hit for where Honda was aiming. Suggests it is better than any of the other big adv bikes off-road, even the German GSes. Dislikes the front suspension on-road, but left the door open suggesting that stiffer springs and/or some tuning would maybe fix that. Says the fit and finish is not BMW or KTM quality. Loved the DSG off-road, disliked it on.

[Paul_E_D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuetRPaZXEs

[nhbubba]

Poor bastids had their video equipment stolen shortly after they got there and still shot that.

I hate how they call it the most affordable in class. IIRC the V-Strom DL1000 is cheaper. (It sure is when you shop the leftovers all dealers seem to have.) And it spec's out very close to this machine.

Also the specs are so close to many of the 800cc machines (Tiger XC, 800GS) that they deserve to be compared too. Not just the 1200+cc beasts. I don't get why all these reviews only compare to those.

But I dig it. Very exciting poop. Nice to be able to say that about a Honda again.

[markbvt]

Suggests it is better than any of the other big adv bikes off-road, even the German GSes.

The big GSes aren't really that great offroad (except for the HP2 Enduro that hasn't been made in years). What really impressed me is that the reviewer felt the AT is better than the KTM 1190 Adventure R offroad.

But I dig it. Very exciting poop. Nice to be able to say that about a Honda again.

I couldn't agree more. I've always had deep respect for what Soichiro Honda accomplished, and some of the legendary bikes that his company built in the past. But it seems like since Soichiro's passing, the company really lost its focus and got sidetracked with bizarre contraptions answering questions no one was asking (the DN-01 being the prime example of this). It's been great to see them put out a selection of good lower-end motorcycles over the last few years, and now they're finally returning to form by reviving a legendary name and giving it to a bike that by all accounts not only meets the resulting expectations, but exceeds them. I expect Soichiro would be proud.

--mark

[Paul_E_D]

The thing looks great. I think it might even re-orient the whole GS type market towards less HP more rideability in mixed conditions. I hope so anyway. I haven't understood the GS since they became Grand touring bikes.

Now let's see a 650 version... and then a 300

[nhbubba]

To that point. There was a CB500X on display at the IMS in NYC. It was not getting much attention. I had not seen one of these in person yet. The NC700x leaves me quite underwhelmed. It just screams "budget" from head to toe. But somehow the 500x seems a little more legitimate in person. Brings more credence to the rally raid setup. Honda could use that model as a basis for a half-sized Africa Twin. Call it the CRF500L. Very nice offer with the CRF250L, this 1000L and a 500L right in the middle.

[Chippertheripper]

Meh, if they made a crf500l it'd still be just as heavy with likely less than have the go fast. I can't see anybody being too into it.

[markbvt]

Yeah, for a CRF500L to be worthwhile, it would need to weigh 375lbs wet and make ~60ish horsepower to be a good midpoint between a 650 single dual-sport and one of the 800 ADV bikes. That puts the CB500X out of contention.

--mark

[nhbubba]

Yeah. Just like this CRF1000 needs to weigh 450lbs wet or less in order to not suck.

[Chippertheripper]

Yeah. Just like this CRF1000 needs to weigh 450lbs wet or less in order to not suck.

I don't understand your sarcasm.

[reks95]

I agree with Chip and Mark on the 500. It'd need to be pretty stupenderiffic to compete with a 690.
That said, I'd love to try the CRF1000L against a Tiger 800.

The other Motorcycle guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOaAgy1rFYM

[nhbubba]

Man that sucked. I am not a fan of reviews that regurgitate the spec sheets. I can read the Honda press release myself doode. Tell me how the fuckin' thing ACTUALLY RIDES! Skip to the 2:00 mark if you're like me.

I can't tell if he doesn't like the bike or is avoiding saying he likes it to not spoil a later review.

[nhbubba]

I agree with Chip and Mark on the 500. It'd need to be pretty stupenderiffic to compete with a 690.
That said, I'd love to try the CRF1000L against a Tiger 800.

I don't agree. The 690 Enduro R costs almost as much as this 1000cc Honda touring bike does brand new. It spanks all the rest of the 6x0cc thumper dual-sports out there both in specs and in price tag. Silly to even compare. Honda has an opportunity to make something newer, more comfortable, and more usable than the XR650. They could slot it as an "adventure tourer" and avoid comparing it to enduros and dual-sports like the 690 entirely. Adventure bikes are all overweight compared to proper dual sports. They're also a shitload more comfortable. It's almost like they're designed for a different market.

Maybe they already have and they are calling it the CB500x. Maybe that is as good as they are going to go. I was mildly impressed with it in person. Not enough to spend money on it.. but it doesn't look like it completely sucks.

Or they could go hard-core and make a 450 or 650 based thumper dual-sport and gun for the 690 Enduro. But that would require a whole new engine. The CB500 mill would not work for that.


My beef with the Tiger 800 is the engine. It's a love it or not really crazy about it kind of thing. I know there are a lot of triple lovers out here, but I found it sterile, boring, and devoid any character. It was a giant ball of meh. The handling quirks aren't awesome either. What really drove it home for me was the lack of adjustment on the suspension on the XC and "roadie". I just can't get with a $12k motorcycle that doesn't even have preload adjusters.

The XCX is better. Almost got me back to my very unfriendly Triumph dealer. Has fly-by-wire throttle and cruise control too. Which this Honda does not.

Tiger 800 XCx vs this Honda would make for an interesting comparo. Throw in the BMW F800GS as well. I'd buy a magazine with that threesome featured on the centerfold.

[Chippertheripper]

Insights you on the triple, 100%, but I don't think it's silly to inject any comparison to the 690 here, as it's currently the benchmark for theoretical best 50-50 bike available, regardless of the price tag. I only say theoretical because I haven't spent much time with one.

[nhbubba]

I guess what I'm trying to say is Honda doesn't need to beat a KTM on the spec sheet to make a nice, desirable motorcycle. As exhibit A I offer this CRF1000.

I couldn't see owning a 690 as my only motorcycle. Where there is a chance I could see a tarted up 500x as my only. Much as I could live (and have lived) with nothing more than my DL650 in the garage. The problem with the 500x is it's bargain basement bits. Throw some decent suspension and maybe some weight savings at that motorcycle, jack the price up by 25% and I think you may have something actually more desirable than the 690 for everyday riding. Maybe.

[Chippertheripper]

Maybe. Fair enough.

What if that 690 came with a rally style fairing and expanded tanks similar to the old 640adv (except better looking), could you live with it then?
Besides the price, I can't see passing it of for a cb500x, even fully kitted.

[nhbubba]

I do like the 690, a lot. My beef is it is a thumper that doesn't fit in my garage. No way I'm touring on a thumper. Just ain't my bag. The plastic, luggage, even the seat I am convinced you can fix via aftermarket. But you can't add a cylinder.

I've seen the promised land and it is full of twins.

Conversely the lighter EXCs and XC/XC-W enduros make better dirty play bikes. Especially for the $$$.

The only buyer I see a 690 working well for is for someone that can have just one. Which ain't me.

[scottieducati]

I've always found no matter how comfy, long distance riding on a Thumper drives me nuts too. GREAT for start / stop and on / off throttle, not so much at speed w/ constant throttle droning on for hours...

[Kurlon]

But you can't add a cylinder.

Says who?

[nt650hawk]

i'm looking for 80/20 (20% being dirt roads / fire roads) distance traveling, 2 up, traffic manager . As much as I've wanted a ST1300/goldwing and loved the BMW GS, yes 2 different worlds. I don't want to deal with BMW maintenance and 2 I probably will venture onto more dirty roads if i had and appropriate tool. This may just be my ticket. Anyone want a CBR 929 and/or a Hawk GT? I think i may need to reach out to Patrica this time.

[nhbubba]

Honestly, any of the current batch of pseudo dirt capable "adventure" bikes can handle any fire road I've ever been on with ease. Tiger 800 roadie. DL650/DL1000. Versys 650/1k.

I think this (and the other 21/18 tire equipped bikes) are far more dirt capable than that. Not single-track all day everyday capable. But a 19/17 tire equipped bike is fine for forest roads. Hell, a 17/17 supermoto is a the shizniggidy on a well graded dirt road.

[reks95]

You make a fine point about price. 690's aren't cheap.
I could see getting excited about a dual sport based on the FZ-07.
Especially if they could figure out how to get it down to like 350.

With my Triumph busted, I'm surprised to say that I could get by with just the 690.
I still have the WR for salt season, but I could get over that, too and have just the one bike.
I've ridden it for hours and hours and I'm fine with it. I just wish the motor was smoother.
A problem they've apparently addressed with the next Duke and I imagine it will filter down to
the Enduro.

Offer to take it for a spin is still open
Chip can borrow it too.

[nhbubba]

I'm about ready to make some moves. I'm itching to upgrade the DL650, not really because I need to, but because I want to. Doing so within the next 3-6 mo for some tax and logistical reasons. My goal is to knock it down to a paltry 3 motorcycle rotation. One slot is taken up by the track toy.

I want to consolidate my KTM 200, DRZ400 and DL650 into just two bikes. One scenario I've debated is getting rid of the DL650 for something faster or more comfortable for distance touring. Gen 2 DL1000 has come to mind, especially for the price. A really kick-ass dual-sport like the 690 enduro would fit next to something like that very nicely. But then I feel a 450 or 500 EXC would fit even better. My DRZ-SM wheels could be made to fit a 450/500 quite easily. Although a 450/500 is kind of a handful in the woods for someone of my relatively low dirt skill. That and something faster for the street makes less and less sense to me these days.

Another scenario has me combining the DL650 and DRZ400 into something like this CRF1000, then keeping the 200 as a woodsy playbike.. something it excels at. Biggest downside here is that I will miss ripping around town on a ratty-ass thumper dual-sport. Streeting the 200 2-stroke just isn't anything close to the same. Still, I think this scenario is a winner.

[Chippertheripper]

Big bike and woodsy bike. Get a scooter for round town hooning later on, in the meantime, just use the new Africa twin you're going to go put a down payment on.

- - - Updated - - -

I.e.: keep the 200.

[slowkermit]

Funny, I've been kicking around the idea of consolidating my 2 smokers into a 350EXC. I'm told That'd be dual sporting bliss. pavement on a 2 stroke has been completely miserable, and I've got some nice trails nearby. I'm afraid I'd miss the 2 stroke experience if I switched over to a thumper.