New African Twin Maybe 1200cc

[Chippertheripper]

Walk through the vendor area at any GP race and you'll be swamped by interns for each manufacturer asking you want you want in a bike. They know who wants what and how many there are. I think you're 100% correct, sorta like the cafe crowd. People think it's big but it's not and those in it aren't spending much. Same as the niche ADV guys.

You know how much a 1200gsa costs? The predominant market of adv type buyers is guys well into adulthood. And those dudes do have $.
The klr rider will always be the unique cheapskate.

[cdovego]

You know how much a 1200gsa costs? The predominant market of adv type buyers is guys well into adulthood. And those dudes do have $.
The klr rider will always be the unique cheapskate.

We're saying the same thing. The dude that buys a 1200gsa goes offroad 3 times a year and that's to park at a campsite.

That crowd doesn't give two hoots about the bike Paul wants (and would ride) ...manufacturers figured this out a long time ago.

[Chippertheripper]

We're saying the same thing. The dude that buys a 1200gsa goes offroad 3 times a year and that's to park at a campsite.

That crowd doesn't give two hoots about the bike Paul wants (and would ride) ...manufacturers figured this out a long time ago.

We are not, actually.
Plenty of the market are, by and large, not used off-road. But LOTS of adv bikes find their way well off the beaten path.
Those riders are the ones I'm talking about. They aren't afraid to spend money for the machine that gets them there.

[SteveM]

Would It kill Kawasaki to FI the KLR?

[cdovego]

We are not, actually.
Plenty of the market are, by and large, not used off-road. But LOTS of adv bikes find their way well off the beaten path.
Those riders are the ones I'm talking about. They aren't afraid to spend money for the machine that gets them there.

You should give the manufacturers a head's up.

[Chippertheripper]

yeah, thanks.

[Garandman]

I guess it's grown on you since you offered to sell it to me. Sounded like some serious second thoughts early on.

I disagree that it would be impossible to put together a solid middleweight option. A 6-800cc twin with a modest fairing and call it a 5 gallon or so tank. The MT/FZ-07 weighs in at just under 400 lbs wet. 20 lbs for more 2 gal more fuel and you still have another 30 lbs to spend on other ADV bits. 450 wet and ready to ride would be pretty compelling.

They could make it. I'm not clear why they don't.
My guess is margin. The 1k+ offerings are still selling well enough to make them want to soak up that $ first.

The BMW F700GS weighs 461 lbs wet.

Tiger 800 XCx is 431lbs dry, with 5 gallons of gas (31lbs) and a gallon of oil, not much more.
Hell, a Tiger 1050 is 437 lbs dry.

Most of us could lose the other 10lbs. Or 20.

[Chippertheripper]

The BMW F700GS weighs 461 lbs wet.

and is not suitably suspended for off-road use, and it has cast wheels.

[Paul_E_D]

and is not suitably suspended for off-road use, and it has cast wheels.

And it's a dog. Hell, the 800 is a dog when you are trying to lift the front to clear even the smallest obstacle.

My point wasn't that the big ADV bikes aren't good, or maybe even great bikes. It was that they are not ideally suited for cross continent type travel where terrain might get rough with no other options. A true middleweight contender with some performance to back it up is what would get my money. Make it have a comfy seat and a little wind protection and it's a done deal. Having ridden naked bikes for years, getting comfy for highway stints is easier that getting comfy for a few hours of gnar.

[cdovego]

And it's a dog. Hell, the 800 is a dog when you are trying to lift the front to clear even the smallest obstacle.

My point wasn't that the big ADV bikes aren't good, or maybe even great bikes. It was that they are not ideally suited for cross continent type travel where terrain might get rough with no other options. A true middleweight contender with some performance to back it up is what would get my money. Make it have a comfy seat and a little wind protection and it's a done deal. Having ridden naked bikes for years, getting comfy for highway stints is easier that getting comfy for a few hours of gnar.

Have you watched any of the cross continent ADV docs on Netflix? They're all on big heavy bikes that kick their ass the entire trip, makes you feel bad for them.

[Paul_E_D]

Yup, and at 130 pounds 5'7" they aren't even an option for me.

[Chippertheripper]

Have you watched any of the cross continent ADV docs on Netflix? They're all on big heavy bikes that kick their ass the entire trip, makes you feel bad for them.

those actors had their hands full. I wonder if they told the manufacturers afterwards they wanted a performance oriented middleweight.

[cdovego]

those actors had their hands full. I wonder if they told the manufacturers afterwards they wanted a performance oriented middleweight.

not today, pickle - try someone else

[Paul_E_D]

They were not experienced enough to know what they wanted.

[SRTie4k]

If you're talking about Ewan and Charlie, I believe they wanted 950/990 Adventures in the first place, which are much less porky than the 1150GSA's they got.

[nhbubba]

I've watched chip and his buds roll through "gnar" on 990's and R1200GSes while I was paddling through on my 400cc dualsport.
Reasonably confident the ADV bikes are capable. I just want more variety in the segment.

[cdovego]

If you're talking about Ewan and Charlie, I believe they wanted 950/990 Adventures in the first place, which are much less porky than the 1150GSA's they got.

Them and there was another one I watched recently. Guys went from London to China, shore to shore. All they did was fight their bikes and elevation sickness.

[e30addict]

I've watched chip and his buds roll through "gnar" on 990's and R1200GSes while I was paddling through on my 400cc dualsport.
Reasonably confident the ADV bikes are capable. I just want more variety in the segment.

Yeah. That was pretty fucking eye opening.

[Chippertheripper]

not today, pickle - try someone else

so sensitive. I'll have a hug for you this weekend if it goes down at Duncan's.

[Chippertheripper]

I've watched chip and his buds roll through "gnar" on 990's and R1200GSes while I was paddling through on my 400cc dualsport.
Reasonably confident the ADV bikes are capable. I just want more variety in the segment.

mini-me is only 5'5" too. too bad he's a dick.

[Paul_E_D]

so sensitive. I'll have a hug for you this weekend if it goes down at Duncan's.

Holy crap. What a difference a day makes...

[loudbeard]

so sensitive. I'll have a hug for you this weekend if it goes down at Duncan's.

We'll have to see what falls today. Not looking great temperature wise for snow melt between now and then and I suspect we may end up with ice out there.

[PhilB]

Would It kill Kawasaki to FI the KLR?

Yes. The whole appeal of that bike is that it's old-school and anvil-simple. A third-world blacksmith can repair it with a rock and some vise-grips. FI would ruin that.

If I was going on a significant long-distance adventure, say, riding from here to Peru (and willing to admit I'd take a boat around the Darien Gap), and expected to have access to civilization if needed, I'd pick something between the BMW F800GS and the KTM 690 Enduro. That's about where I see most versatility, the bikes most capable of handling anything. If civilization will be largely unavailable, I'd go with a KLR650 and a bagful of spares and tools.

PhilB

[Chippertheripper]

Sounds about right.
That's why I said "if".
Ain't no worries here.

[TheIglu]

Yes. The whole appeal of that bike is that it's old-school and anvil-simple. A third-world blacksmith can repair it with a rock and some vise-grips. FI would ruin that.

If I was going on a significant long-distance adventure, say, riding from here to Peru (but willing to take a boat around the Darien Gap), and expected to have access to civilization if needed, I'd pick something between the BMW F800GS and the KTM 690 Enduro. That's about where I see most versatility, the bikes most capable of handling anything. If civilization will be largely unavailable, I'd go with a KLR650 and a bagful of spares and tools.

PhilB

And the downside is the absolute refusal by Kawasaki to put even the most cheapest version of modern suspension/brakes on it. Or get the HP up to 45 or so.

I loved my KLR, but a panacea it was not.