Aftermarket Warranty Woes

[PurplePackage]

If they find in his favor, he will get a full settlement. Why would he not be made whole? Maybe I'm missing something.

Max is 10k out in LA. Tiger 1200 in similar dealer-serviced condition is ~15k out there.

[Degsy]

Max is 10k out in LA. Tiger 1200 in similar dealer-serviced condition is ~15k out there.

Pretty sure he's only claiming for the repair cost. about $2500?

[PurplePackage]

Yes, but it's still sans-timing chain and in several pieces. If it's repaired and working for only $2500, it's a no-brainer. If there's serious engine damage, it's engine replacement time, and that is total-loss territory with the current parts crisis. We can't know until its done, so you assume worst-case.

[OneCheekRider]

I'm trying to get in touch with a Breach of Contract lawyer before I go the small claims route. If nothing else, hopefully they can provide some guidance before I chase them in small claims.

[PurplePackage]

Maybe give peopleclerk.com a visit. Seems legit.

[OneCheekRider]

Someone from the warranty company called me back to shed some light on the denial. I also asked for all the documentation, which is apparently only the inspection report and their official denial letter. Very nice woman who clearly interacts with angry customers on the daily told me its due to "wear and tear". That the timing chain is a common wear item and given the mileage on the bike it's a clear wear item. I asked, "why did your company sell me an unlimited mileage warranty that explicitly includes internally lubricated parts per the contract if both time and mileage plays an impact in denying a claim that is within the warranty period? Just seems odd to me". After some silence I got an email for their legal department

[Stoneman]

After some silence I got an email for their legal department

FROM their legal department? Please do share...

[OneCheekRider]

FROM their legal department? Please do share...

My bad. No, I was directed to their legal department who only communicates via email apparently.

[e30addict]

I love that she told you, most likely on a recorded line, that they denied something that was explicitly covered. I imagine a lawyer would have a field day with that one.

[OneCheekRider]

Honestly, I think a lawyer will have a field day with this whole thing.

[OneCheekRider]

Here's the denial letter they sent:



What irks me is:

1. I don't believe timing chains have a replacement interval, at least not outlined in the owner's or service manual. It's my understanding they should last the life of the vehicle. I'd argue this is premature either way and still covered under the "internally lubricated engine component" section of the contract.

2. They replaced the fork seals at 36k miles and now they're denying them at 57k. If it's wear, why did they already pay to replace fork seals with 36k on them and now denying seals with 21k?? The fork seals are not a big concern for me but should be and have been covered per the contract.

3. As stated in a prior post, I purchased an unlimited mileage warranty...why would I purchase an unlimited mileage warranty if it doesn't cover unlimited miles?!

4. Finally, why go through the effort of collecting maintenance records AND sending an inspector if the requested repairs are "consistent with time and miles"

[OneCheekRider]

I just got the inspector's report from the warranty company. Looks like the company is basing their denial on what he wrote regarding time/mileage. I use my office phone to call the inspector (who I've been trying to reach for a week). Of course he picks up with this number. We had a nice conversation and thoroughly went through his process when he reveals he only does cars. He also said he fully expected this claim to be approved. I then use some logic on him and he basically agreed to fucking up the report. He was super cool about it and said he's human, went on to say I can demand another inspection. I asked if he would be open to a conference call with the warranty company, which he agreed to so looks like tomorrow may be a fun day...

[csmutty]

That's dirty. Sorry you're going through this. Such a pain in the ass.

[nhbubba]

This blows.
Somewhat reinforces my presumption that these warranties are usually not worth the cost, time, or effort.

[Kurlon]

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/16...age=106#manual as an example, how to see if a timing chain is out of spec or not. I didn't see any examples of the Tiger giving explicit cam chain swap intervals, just test procedures.

Colin, by definition any extended warranty offering is priced so the one selling it ends up ahead overall. Otherwise they'd go bankrupt.

[nhbubba]

Colin, by definition any extended warranty offering is priced so the one selling it ends up ahead overall. Otherwise they'd go bankrupt.

In the aggregate, sure. But for the consumer it is-at least marketed as-insurance. If it is insurance that never pays, what good is it?!

What's the expression? "..they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time."

[PurplePackage]

If it is insurance that never pays, what good is it?!

Insurance is 50% scam, 50% business. If it isn't willing to pay when you need it, its the former.

[OneCheekRider]

This blows.
Somewhat reinforces my presumption that these warranties are usually not worth the cost, time, or effort.

They are absolutely not worth it if this is the case. I buy at least one vehicle every year and I know a fair number of people that I will advise not to get any aftermarket warranty from now on. I would imagine their fallout from this is far greater than the cost of this repair, especially given what I paid for the warranty in the first place and how many people they employ to deal solely with these denials. It's probably all a moot point though because each denied claim further boosts their bottom line and like me, there's likely someone that views this is a low-cost insurance policy if spread over the term of the contract without any knowledge how awful these companies are when you need them.

[02redhawk]

I may have missed your response but did you check with the state AG?

[OneCheekRider]

I have not checked with the AG yet. Here's my take on the whole process: The warranty company only interfaces with the dealer/shop on items pertaining to the repair through a claims rep. They have a customer service rep for the consumer (me) to call but they only take what the claims rep provides them and relates it to the terms of the contract. I cannot talk to a claims rep (my number gets flagged in their system). They abide solely by what is outlined in the contract (another reason to read everything!). Unfortunately, the consumer needs to rely on the dealer/shop to show the necessity of the repair and how it relates to your contract
and dealer/shop is very unlikely to know your contract. The whole process is tedious and to make matters worse the claims rep is not mechanically inclined. Also, even worse, the dealer/shop likely doesn't have much of an interest to pursue this because it takes time and energy and they are not impacted by the costs of the repair. The warranty company uses all of this to their advantage.

In their discretion, warranty company can use a 3rd party inspector, which in my case they did. This 3rd party inspector has no knowledge of your vehicle (manufacturer's specs, etc) nor do they know your contract. The inspector exerts little energy to providing their report. In my case, this inspector is not experienced with motorcycles and might have been influenced to provide a certain response that they can use to deny the claim. He wrongly used the term "wear" in relation to my bike's timing chain which gives the warranty company grounds to deny based on a wear clause in the contract. They then rely on the 3rd party inspection report to deny the claim and absolve themselves of liability.

Luckily, my dealer is pretty awesome and also believes this is wrong. We will conference call the warranty company to explain why the inspector is not only wrong but unqualified (not a certified mechanic, didn't read service manual, etc). If needed, we will also dial in the inspector and potentially demand another inspector to review the claim.

There's a good chance once they submit their denial, that's it and the only recourse is legal action. Again, this is to their favor because the time/energy/money to fight them most likely exceeds the value of the claim, so from a consumer standpoint it sucks and probably isn't financially worth it to pursue.

For these reasons, don't just walk, RUN away from an aftermarket warranty unless you thoroughly read through the contract and are prepared for the shitshow they get off on putting you through. I'm sure there's good companies out there, but I'm guessing they're few and far between.

[butcher bergs]

Is it possible Second Wind is interested in hearing this story being that the warranty was essentially purchased through them?

[OneCheekRider]

They've been gone for a few years unfortunately. I loved the guys there and know they would be really disappointed to hear this.

[butcher bergs]

I apologize for being confused. I thought they'd morphed into another dealership and after a visit to Google, I see they were acquired by National Powersports

[02redhawk]

The reason I ask about contacting the AG is a call from them may keep the claims company from delaying for the reasons you mention. I can' recall ever hearing that a business wants a call from them. You pay your taxes. If the G's office calls early you might avoid having to lawyer up. Certainly is a shitshow.

[OneCheekRider]

Update: went to the dealer and phoned their claims department (remember, claims wont talk to me). The service lead at the dealer explained that he received the inspection report and disagreed with their findings. He said he spoke with the inspector and the inspector clearly knew nothing about motorcycles and pointed out where he obviously made mistakes in the report. They agreed he screwed up the fork seals and approved that portion of the repair based on their "updated review". Awesome, but not done yet...

They are still denying the timing chain due to stretch -- wear and tear -- based on the initial call from the dealer where apparently they mentioned the adjuster was completely maxed out, which according to the claims rep "clearly indicates a worn chain not covered under the contract". The dealer doesn't remember saying that but if the warranty company is using it, it's probably on their recorded line. I think there's a miscommunication as the adjuster goes to max when it is removed. Dealer didn't want to lose payout on the forks so went through that process for payment and hung up. I asked dealer if they physically measured the chain, which turns out they did not due to the kinks in the chain as that should have been sufficient evidence. So we measured it and it's 147mm and the service manual states anything over 150 is stretched. So time for another call into the claims rep to show them the chain is in fact NOT stretched...