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Article on MC Safety in NH

  1. #1
    Lifer
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    Article on MC Safety in NH


    Link to Union Leader article

    29 deaths total
    28 self trained riders
    1 MSF trained rider (hit a deer)

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  2. #2
    Lifer mycirus's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    No helmet law in NH. I would like to see the breakdown of how many had helmets and how many didnt.

    Bruce

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  3. #3
    Lifer
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Yah whatever the breakdown is, that is the best case for rider training I've seen yet...

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  4. #4
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    I'd be curious to see what percentage of all NH riders have taken a riding class. Statistics are useless unless you compare the proportions between groups. The article also doesn't mention how many of the people were killed by a cage or animal strike through no fault of their own. It's just another shitty newspaper article giving people more things to dislike about motorcyclists.

    Motorcycle ownership is increasing rapidly and death rates are also increasing. OMG!!!!

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  5. #5
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    I know the boyfriend of the girl that hit the deer and was killed. He was my nextdoor neighbor when I lived in Hampton. We rode together a few times, kid pretty much rode like an asshole. Anyway, I guess he bought her the bike, ('03 or '04 R6), her first one also.
    Good call.


    I haven't seen him since this happened, but I guess he sold his bike as well.

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  6. #6
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    I heard on the radio that accidents in my area, Somersworth, Dover, Rochester, were up 30%.

    I've seen no less than 8 multi home developments go up on my road alone. I haven't counted, but it is obvious that traffic has increased way more than 30%.

    Given that, the incident rate has DECREASED!

    I think the same while reading the above article, keep in mind the person quoted is campaigning for more funds for their MSF course.
    Now, what is not mentioned is the number of vehicles total on the roads, if that has increased more than the percentage of incidents, again the incident rate has DECREASED.

    Also not mentioned is that the MSF course negates having to pass a skills test administered by an independant observer.
    This is why I had my wife (slam pig for you youngin's) take the MSF, she would almost certainly get her lisence after the MSF, and almost certainly would NOT taking the skills test.

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  7. #7
    Lurker Zorlock's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by ZX-12R
    I'd be curious to see what percentage of all NH riders have taken a riding class. Statistics are useless unless you compare the proportions between groups. The article also doesn't mention how many of the people were killed by a cage or animal strike through no fault of their own. It's just another shitty newspaper article giving people more things to dislike about motorcyclists.

    Motorcycle ownership is increasing rapidly and death rates are also increasing. OMG!!!!
    It also fails to mention that NH is a boom area right now. People are moving here at a greater rate than usual. Just another shady ploy that the "Useless Leader" uses to sell more biased and recycled toilet paper.

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    see ya,
    DJD


  8. #8
    Lifer
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    You guys are right, what was I thinking.

    Training, like helmets and gear, is worthless.

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  9. #9
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by Zorlock
    It also fails to mention that NH is a boom area right now. People are moving here at a greater rate than usual. Just another shady ploy that the "Useless Leader" uses to sell more biased and recycled toilet paper.

    Not sure if you're trying to make a point, but I'd like to let you know that you don't have one.

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  10. #10
    Lurker Zorlock's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by bentbryan
    Not sure if you're trying to make a point, but I'd like to let you know that you don't have one.
    My point was that the article is not accompanied by how, when and where the arbitrary numbers to support thier findings were gathered from. The fact that this newspaper is renouned for only telling one side of the story does not help either.

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    see ya,
    DJD


  11. #11
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by legalspeed
    Also not mentioned is that the MSF course negates having to pass a skills test administered by an independant observer.
    This is why I had my wife (slam pig for you youngin's) take the MSF, she would almost certainly get her lisence after the MSF, and almost certainly would NOT taking the skills test.
    Not sure where you got this info. When I took the MSF course (basic) 2 years ago we had to pass a skills test on the range. In fact a mom/ daughter couple both failed the skills test in my class and did not pass the course.

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  12. #12
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by Zorlock
    My point was that the article is not accompanied by how, when and where the arbitrary numbers to support thier findings were gathered from. The fact that this newspaper is renouned for only telling one side of the story does not help either.
    What is so unbelievable about the stats? All they're saying is that the number of registered bikes on the road has increased, along with a corresponding increase in number of fatalities.

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  13. #13
    Lurker Zorlock's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by bentbryan
    What is so unbelievable about the stats? All they're saying is that the number of registered bikes on the road has increased, along with a corresponding increase in number of fatalities.
    Not sure why you are riding me so hard (do you own the paper?), but you have pretty much just made my point for me in your reply. All I'M SAYING is that if they have not compared these numbers to the population gain in NH over the past 5 years, then this increase is a non-issue and simply related to a much larger populous.

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    see ya,
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  14. #14
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    They state the percentage of fatalities is up 222%. NH's population (at least not to my knowledge) hasn't risen that much in the past 5 years. Not trying to give you a hard time, haven't you met the bent one?

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  15. #15
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by bentbryan
    Not sure where you got this info. When I took the MSF course (basic) 2 years ago we had to pass a skills test on the range. In fact a mom/ daughter couple both failed the skills test in my class and did not pass the course.
    Did YOUR INSTRUCTOR administer the test?

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  16. #16
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by bentbryan
    What is so unbelievable about the stats? All they're saying is that the number of registered bikes on the road has increased, along with a corresponding increase in number of fatalities.
    I think the jist of the article was to point out that MSF riders are much more safe.

    I think people have to work much harder to pass the state skill test, than the skill test/MSF course. Everyone I talked to said have your wife take the MSF, she's almost gauranteed to pass.
    I think they were right, no way she could have taken the state test and passed (on her Katana 750), yet she was the second from top in her 30+ people class. One of the reasons was the MSF class allows you to take (and provides) much easier handling bikes than you would ride on the street (150's or 250's I think).

    I support the MSF class and think it's a great thing, I disagree with the article and the presenting of facts.

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  17. #17
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    There was no 'independent instructor'. Not sure what the benefit of that is, at the beginning of the class we were told that just because you paid, doesn't mean you'll pass. And, two people failed the skills test and didn't pass the course. I don't see the fault in the MSF class.

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  18. #18
    Lifer
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by legalspeed
    I think the jist of the article was to point out that MSF riders are much more safe.

    I think people have to work much harder to pass the state skill test, than the skill test/MSF course. Everyone I talked to said have your wife take the MSF, she's almost gauranteed to pass.
    I think they were right, no way she could have taken the state test and passed (on her Katana 750), yet she was the second from top in her 30+ people class. One of the reasons was the MSF class allows you to take (and provides) much easier handling bikes than you would ride on the street (150's or 250's I think).

    I support the MSF class and think it's a great thing, I disagree with the article and the presenting of facts.
    Did you take the class or are you just basing this on hearsay?

    The MSF test AFAICT was much harder than the state test. MUCH harder.

    Of course it may *seem* harder to pass the state test, as the people who don't take the state test don't have any proper instruction, they just go out and try to figure it out on their own, or have someone else who is not an instructor give them a few pointers which may or may not be correct.

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  19. #19
    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by Zorlock
    My point was that the article is not accompanied by how, when and where the arbitrary numbers to support thier findings were gathered from.

    That's almost always the case though. People need to ask more questions and stop taking things like that at face value.

    Since they're so often misrepresented or manipulated, STATISITICS is a class EVERYBODY should take.

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    -Matt

  20. #20
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by benVFR
    Did you take the class or are you just basing this on hearsay?

    The MSF test AFAICT was much harder than the state test. MUCH harder.

    Of course it may *seem* harder to pass the state test, as the people who don't take the state test don't have any proper instruction, they just go out and try to figure it out on their own, or have someone else who is not an instructor give them a few pointers which may or may not be correct.
    No, I did not take the class Ben, my wife did. I took the state skills test which (in my state) is supposed to be the same.
    The state skills test is mapped out in the DMV parking lot, my wife could not even come close on the 500lbs. Katana (we practiced), had no problem on the rebel 125 (I think) and told me point blank, she would never pass the state requirement on our street bikes, even after the MSF.

    Again, I support he MSF, just not the article. Nor am I implying that if you took the MSF, you are a lesser skilled rider.
    The article implies the opposite.

    Bryan, the instructor that has all students passing, would look like a great instructor, much the reason why NYS administers their own test to students, not allowing the instructor to judge their own handywork. My wife's class had two people that failed, elderly people, and were asked not to come back on Sunday.

    Hey guys, I don't mean to argue with my firends, I just don't support the article. I piped up because I heard the same lame type of stat being given for reason of increased traffic survailence.

    For instance, maybe there is a wait getting into the MSF class, therefore maybe more people recieved their license without taking the class. In this case, naturally the stats would show most crashed riders had not taken the class.

    I support and recommend the MSF, have considered taking the advanced MSF class myself. I do not agree with the article.

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  21. #21
    Lifer
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    There are a lot more people with stories about the state instructors looking the other way during tests or passing people who shouldn't have passed...

    It is too bad, there is no way MSF can train someone to ride a 600cc+ sportbike in one weekend, it is not their fault that we are all so stupid as to buy bikes like that as starter bikes.

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  22. #22
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    I was one of the 'learn to ride on my own' types. I basically took the MSF class for the hell of it. After, I had wished that I had taken the MSF class to begin with!

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  23. #23
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Originally posted by bentbryan
    I was one of the 'learn to ride on my own' types. I basically took the MSF class for the hell of it. After, I had wished that I had taken the MSF class to begin with!
    Same here. Had my bike, had my license, had nearly 8,000 miles under my belt. Passed the state test on my own bike no sweat. Passed the MSF test no sweat. Learned plenty in the MSF course though. I took it since a friend was taking it and i wanted the insurance discount. I will vouche for it. Every time I ride with a newbie and cringe as they enter a corner I know they will lock the back end up on, I wish they had taken the course.

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  24. #24
    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    Stats like this are a crock of shit. I believe next to nothing I've ever read in the Union Liar...

    The play on numbers people are mentioning are very valid Bryan. I don't really see where you're coming from...

    If motorcycle ownership/operators is UP say, 45% in NH and fatalities/accidents are up say, 30%, then aren't accidents/fatalities actually DOWN?

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    Did you grit your teeth and try to look like Clint Fuckin' Eastwood?
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  25. #25
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    Article on MC Safety in NH

    As of Dec. 8, 29 people were killed on motorcycles, a 222 percent increase over the nine killed during the same time last year, Thomson said.

    There is absolutely NO WAY the population of NH has risen 222%. I just don't see what is so hard to believe. People are seeing this as an anti-motorcycle article, which I don't agree with.

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