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Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

  1. #26
    xxaarraa
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?


    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    From a time and effort standpoint, you are better off buying a battery with protection built in. Obviously there is a premium for going that route.

    Ideally the monitoring system will keep track of the individual cells in the battery which is hard to do with an aftermarket solution due to the battery being sealed. In the case of adding a simple low voltage disconnect, there are commercial modules available to do this. Littlefuse makes a compact unit that has enough current handling for a typical motorcycle: http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/co...-datasheet.pdf . The voltage profile on the fixed model looks like it matches a lead acid battery but the programmable model could be set to match the profile of a LiFePO4 battery. I also don't know the price of this module off hand so it's possible it could bring the total cost to something higher than just buying a battery with built in protection.

    For me, I've weighed the pros and cons and have settled on a non-protected LiFePO4 for my KTM which I am diligent about keeping on a tender when I'm not using it for long periods. For my street bikes, I'm still using traditional lead acid AGMs.

    If you are willing to experiment and tinker, there are plenty of battery monitoring ICs available to mess around with.

    Yeah, the litefuse kit you linked to is $141 on amazon. Lithium battery monitoring systems may be a well understood subject matter, but if the price / economics don't make sense, they are of little use for us motorcyclists. And when the entire battery costs ~$200 (for a high end ballistic nonetheless, cheaper lithium batteries are available), a $141 BMS makes zero sense.

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  2. #27
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    And when the entire battery costs ~$200 (for a high end ballistic nonetheless, cheaper lithium batteries are available), a $141 BMS makes zero sense.
    The $141 would be a one time investment for your motorcycle though and would allow you to buy less expensive batteries in the future. Overall reliability of Lithium batteries in motorcycles designed for lead acid still isn't fully understood and has me nervous due to the cost of entry of the batteries. That's why I haven't put any in my street bikes. My KTM uses a small enough one that was under $100 ($60 something if I remember correctly) so I decided to give it a try. It's been in there for 2 years and is still working find. I did buy the lithium specific battery tender for it though.

    As far as I can tell, Ballistic EVO batteries do not have a low voltage cutout integrated in them and the model that would replace my most often operated street bike runs a smidge over $300. It runs the risk of being turned into a paperweight through some careless inattention and would be another $300 to replace. It's an expensive prospect should the battery die early due to discharging it too far. While it's in my realm of capabilities to design my own battery protection circuit, I'm still unwilling to drop the coin on larger LiFePO4 batteries for my street bikes.

    At some point, manufacturers will integrate battery protection into the ECU of the bike/car and lithium batteries will become much more common and less expensive.

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    Last edited by ZX-12R; 06-27-17 at 11:31 AM.
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  3. #28
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    Every time I look at Lithiums I come up with similar math.
    The woods bike application is N/A for me as mine is even lower maintenance; kick only!

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  4. #29
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    I got a Battery Tender-branded LiFePo4 for the HyperMotard for ~$90 or so from Stored Energy Products. I also picked up a Battery Tender lithium-compatible tender for about ~$60 from Amazon; wherever possible I try to leave the bike on the tender. High-compression twin + small battery + Ducati electrics doesn't usually equal a good time. We'll see how I go with this!

    If I needed a more reliable solution, I would have opted for a microprocessor-controlled battery, but I was in a pinch and didn't have time to look.

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  5. #30
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    Lead acid batts die if drawn down too low too, but we've managed how long without low voltage cutouts on them?

    I've got 5+ years into a basic Ballistic EVO with no BMS, no protections, on a bike with no charging system, and it up until this year it got charged off a boring old, lead acid targeted Batt Tender or Batt Tender Jr. Hasn't given me any trouble. It's going to migrate to Mistake soon as it's showing it's age with a bit reduced capacity at this point but still well more than enough for a full GTL plus shenanigans so I can't complain.

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  6. #31

    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    I just picked up a deep cell marine battery two days ago for my trolling motor. I know not motorcycle related. He told me to buy a 5 or 6 amp charger for it. Deep cell batteries are meant for long breaks of not using and holding their charge after a winter off

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  7. #32
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzinhornets View Post
    Deep cell batteries are meant for long breaks of not using and holding their charge after a winter off
    Deep cycle batteries don't have an inherent characteristic that allows them to go for extended periods without being used. They suffer similar self discharge rates as standard starter batteries but can go somewhat longer without being damaged due to the properties of deep cycle construction. They certainly aren't designed to sit through an entire winter without maintence.

    Your marine battery is likely AGM which has a lower self discharge rate than traditional flooded cells so it will tolerate longer periods of inactivity, but like any other lead-acid battery it's useful life will be longer if you keep it charged.

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  8. #33
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    EarthX includes a full BMS in the batt IIRC.
    True.

    My Triumph killed one, anyway. I've gone back to AGM for that bike.

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  9. #34
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    On

    topic

    I have a YUASA Battery maintainer. It is 6 cycles which (allegedly) has the final that does drain a battery 1/2 way then recharge to full

    also automatic desulfur cycle etc.

    Once charged a 0.1 amp would maintain it at full charge its AMPS times time

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  10. #35
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    My WRX is in NH, AGM battery run down, old charger broke and Solar is in MA. So I ordered one of these to compare.

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  11. #36
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    FYI the Noco is backordered 2-4 weeks on Amazon.

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  12. #37
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    I thank you guys for recommending the NOCO. Been using the G7200 quite a bit.

    Also purchased the G15000 as we have some larger batteries. FYI it is not recommended for powersports batteries. So, in many cases I will not be able to use all the power.

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  13. #38
    xxaarraa
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    I thank you guys for recommending the NOCO. Been using the G7200 quite a bit.

    Also purchased the G15000 as we have some larger batteries. FYI it is not recommended for powersports batteries. So, in many cases I will not be able to use all the power.
    You are welcome. Yes, still very happy with my NOCO also. It is currently keeping the Ballistic lithium battery in one of the motorcycles juiced up over the winter.

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  14. #39
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    If you unplug the batt from the bike, that Ballistic should be just fine come spring. The now 6 year old Ballistic I moved to the R6 is just sitting there, no tender, key off, no worries. (Caveat - some bikes have parasitic draw issues, those you NEED to disconnect or keep on a tender.)

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  15. #40
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    Changed batteries today and used the “Supply” setting so didn’t lose any memory. Slick.

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  16. #41
    xxaarraa
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    I have an update on the trailer battery situation. I just picked up a new battery for the trailer's tongue - went with an Odyssey PC2150S Group 31. 1150 CCA, 100 AH.

    It's marketed as a combo deep cell and starter battery - same category as an Optima Yellow top for example.

    My intent is dual use - it will power lights and fan inside trailer in the summer and will be doing secondary duty in the bed of the truck for the fall wheeling and overlanding season. In combination with zero gauge wiring and a 2000W inverter, this battery will help me run a Keurig and Microwave in the truck for short periods when I'm not booting up the generator. Will be wired in parallel to the stock 800 CCA battery in the truck with quick disconnects, charge isolator etc.

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  17. #42
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    This is pretty wild development in the battery field.


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  18. #43
    xxaarraa
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    I have an update on the trailer battery situation. I just picked up a new battery for the trailer's tongue - went with an Odyssey PC2150S Group 31. 1150 CCA, 100 AH.

    It's marketed as a combo deep cell and starter battery - same category as an Optima Yellow top for example.

    My intent is dual use - it will power lights and fan inside trailer in the summer and will be doing secondary duty in the bed of the truck for the fall wheeling and overlanding season. In combination with zero gauge wiring and a 2000W inverter, this battery will help me run a Keurig and Microwave in the truck for short periods when I'm not booting up the generator. Will be wired in parallel to the stock 800 CCA battery in the truck with quick disconnects, charge isolator etc.
    I have an update on this - I completed this a while ago and even used it on my cross country drive a bunch and very happy with the results. I realize this is tangential and folks here may not care. I figured I'd post the update anyway in case someone is looking at a similar setup for their motor home or track van. It's a very simple parallel house battery setup with a 2500W inverter.

    4 gauge wiring from car's OEM battery (800 CCA) routed to bed along the frame. Big enough fuse wired at the factory battery end. Wiring enters bed through a small hole drilled inside the factory tie-down clamp. Battery and inverter are on a quick connect/disconnect. No complicated charge isolators. Figured it would take a lot to drain a 100 AH house battery AND a big car starter battery, and I always pack a jump starter anyway.

    The inverter is mounted to my swingcase so that I can easily remove it when hosing off the bed of truck, and so that it's also easily accessible when standing by the tailgate.

    The battery is held in place with my TMAT blockers. No drilling or hard mounting either inverter or battery.

    I ran a small microwave a bunch on the cross country journey, as well as a Keurig. I always had the truck running while doing so, with the house battery just being the buffer for high startup draw. However, while testing, I was able to run the inverter and my appliances with truck off and just off the house battery / starter battery combo if I wanted to. The Odyssey Group 31 is super beefy. I was also able to run the inverter and the microwave right off the car battery with no house battery installed, with engine running. I imagine that just drained the car battery just a tad for the initial draw, but in a pinch, it should be doable.

    Incidentally, engine auto start/stop did not work when house battery was connected. When house battery was removed and moved to trailer, engine start/stop started working again seamlessly.




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    Last edited by xxaarraa; 04-25-18 at 01:25 PM.

  19. #44
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Xxaarraa recommended the NOCO Genius Charger and I used it in repair mode. Took a few hours but now the battery is back to normal. Has standard, AGM, and Li modes.
    On something of a whim, I bought this charger per yours and xxaarraa's recommendation.

    First project was to try to push some life back into the tiny AGM battery in the WR450F. I seem to have a knack for leaving the ignition on this bike on, especially in track mode with the lights removed. This draws the battery down to dead-as-a-door-nail quite nicely. Your wonder charger brought the battery up to capacity quite nicely. I threw the "repair" mode at it and am somewhat impressed. Battery was so far gone that the battery tender would not register it as a load in need of charge; only red blinks. Now it goes into float mode within a minute of being hooked up.. and it turns the big thumpah over with ease.

    Second was an experiment. I have an old battery that I think came from an SV (9-BS size, I think), but don't remember. Its been on my workbench for a while, destined for the next dump run for recycle. None of my chargers wanted to do anything with this battery. Wonder charger passed on first try as well. Last night I gave it another chance.. and it claims it put a charge into it. I'm doing the "repair" thing on this one too. Not sure I'm ever going to trust this crusty battery for cross-country touring. But I do believe this charger may be worth some of its cost.

    One driver for buying a new charger is I would like to experiment with lightweight lithium batteries. I wanted a charger that was explicitly lithium friendly.

    Biggest thing that pisses me off is the dumbass connector. It's basically a much nicer, much more proprietary SAE connector with a locking tab. This-in my view-is not something the world needs. All it meant was I had to shell out a few more $ to buy their SAE adapter. Obvious grab for more $ through accessories.

    The included terminal and clip leads are of nice quality though. The SAE adapter was a mandatory convenience buy though.

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  20. #45
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Which battery charger do I need for my marine battery in trailer?

    Most auto parts stores will give you a store credit for old batteries.

    I’m not wild about the stock clips, but this charger (I use the 7200 for motorcycles) works better than my Clore, which was considered “smart” a few years ago.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 05-09-19 at 07:29 AM.
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