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The best beginner bike is getting way better!

  1. #1
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    The best beginner bike is getting way better!



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  2. #2
    xxaarraa
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

    With variable vane / twin scroll turbos now well developed and the issue of the dreaded "turbo lag" fairly well-managed, it might be time to revisit turbos for motorcycles. In fact, my truck has an "anti lag" mode where the ECU keeps the turbos spun up all the time (I know some rally cars have had this for a long time), which would lend itself nicely to track motorcycles as well.

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  3. #3
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    I think the timing is potentially just a smidge too late. As battery tech gets better, gas/elec hybrid options can provide far more umph than a turbo setup, especially off the line. I loves me some compressed decay dinosaur burning fun, but electric is what's going to see the most development going forward.

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  4. #4
    xxaarraa
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    I think the timing is potentially just a smidge too late. As battery tech gets better, gas/elec hybrid options can provide far more umph than a turbo setup, especially off the line. I loves me some compressed decay dinosaur burning fun, but electric is what's going to see the most development going forward.
    At present day, battery tech isn't ready for prime time. I can't even imagine the stress associated with range anxiety on a street motorcycle.

    Unless some dramatic leaps are made in battery efficiency, I think battery/EV propulsion will crawl along slowly like its doing today. I don't think investing in charging stations all over the country is the right answer to make up for battery shortcomings.

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  5. #5
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    We're going to see a lot more hybrid development in the near term, then all electric. I've semi-seriously pondered just how much you could improve a RS125 with some hybrid assist for example, for not much weight. I'd love to see a whole hog torlon hybrid motor in a moto 3 or LW class GP machine just blowing people's minds with a combo of light weight and TOOOOOOOOOOOOOORQE plus a real top end.

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  6. #6
    Lifer Tekime's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    From a business standpoint, tapping an existing customer base is the low hanging fruit. A turbo busa is also likely to be powerful marketing collateral even if sales are mediocre. Suzuki is clawing back to life and I'm sure their R&D is aware of the market around electric bikes, but being the first to the party is risky business too. Do any of the big four even have consumer-level electric fast bike options anywhere but on paper at this point?

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  7. #7
    xxaarraa
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    We're going to see a lot more hybrid development in the near term, then all electric. I've semi-seriously pondered just how much you could improve a RS125 with some hybrid assist for example, for not much weight. I'd love to see a whole hog torlon hybrid motor in a moto 3 or LW class GP machine just blowing people's minds with a combo of light weight and TOOOOOOOOOOOOOORQE plus a real top end.
    I see a future for the frankentard! You should combine yesteryear 2-stroke with mid-21st century hybrid tech!

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  8. #8
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    I see a future for the frankentard! You should combine yesteryear 2-stroke with mid-21st century hybrid tech!
    Hah, there is actually a synergy there, get most of the benefits of electric (peak torque at 0 RPM) for the minimal weight to achieve it, enough batt to enable some boost but no where near as much as would be needed to do a whole race on batt alone. Meanwhile, you've got an engine design that is naturally lightweight with good peak power, with a power curve that is weak right where electric can help (low RPM), and strong where comparable electric would be too bulky (high RPM). Where the combo fails is in not burning compressed, decaying dinosaurs poorly so... no green sticker for this project.

    I dunno as Frankentard would be the right application, packaging would be a PITA. A Moto3 or Moto2 style machine however has lots of room under the glass...

    On the electric bikes on the market question, Yamaha has the PED1 and PES1 about ready for production with the speculation being that they'll hit the market this year, but I'm betting not in the US.

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    Last edited by Kurlon; 08-29-17 at 02:30 PM.
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    Lifer backinthesaddle's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    I can already foresee a certain guy in RI thinking that his S1000RR and H2 are too slow for him and needing this new busa.

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  10. #10
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Kurlon just got a chub

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  11. #11
    Lifer TIMMYDUCK's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    I could use a new Busa.

    I'll throw my money down if it isn't some crazy price.

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  12. #12
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    The best beginner bike is getting way better!-image-jpg

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  13. #13
    Lifer Tekime's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    On the electric bikes on the market question, Yamaha has the PED1 and PES1 about ready for production with the speculation being that they'll hit the market this year, but I'm betting not in the US.
    Neat. Probably fun as heck to ride. Seems like it's hitting a different type of buyer, but maybe that's exactly where the market is for new bikes in 3-5 years. Time will tell!

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  14. #14
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Turbo = extra long swing arm and 400 series rear, nye that, M&H race slick.

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  15. #15
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    On the electric bikes on the market question, Yamaha has the PED1 and PES1 about ready for production with the speculation being that they'll hit the market this year, but I'm betting not in the US.
    Good news about the PED1, I heard the PEDO didn't do well with market testing..

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  16. #16
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    It didn't help that it only comes in white panel sides. The included bag of candy couldn't have hurt though...

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  17. #17
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

    With variable vane / twin scroll turbos now well developed and the issue of the dreaded "turbo lag" fairly well-managed, it might be time to revisit turbos for motorcycles. In fact, my truck has an "anti lag" mode where the ECU keeps the turbos spun up all the time (I know some rally cars have had this for a long time), which would lend itself nicely to track motorcycles as well.
    Packaging a turbo on a bike seems a big issue.

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  18. #18
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Packaging a turbo on a bike seems a big issue.
    The Hyabusa aftermarket already has that well sorted out. It's an easy bike to turbocharge.

    I wish Kawasaki would go forced induction on their larger bikes. Since the H2 is a liter bike, they need to release an H1 based on the ZX-14R or the Concourse 14 platform. A 250ish horsepower Concourse with a warranty would be loads of fun!

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  19. #19
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    If anyone hasn't seen a stock wheelbase turbo busa drag race, it's worth a watch

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  20. #20
    Lifer backinthesaddle's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Gotta be better then when Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawi built turbo bikes in the 80's. A friend still has the CX turbo, and I saw a matching pair of GPZ turbos last month.

    1980s Turbo Bikes Shootout

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    Last edited by backinthesaddle; 08-31-17 at 04:07 PM.
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  21. #21
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!


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  22. #22
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    I had the opportunity to ride a 2016 Kawi H2 for a couple days this week. I took it to Lowell Bike Night. I must say hearing the supercharging whine and feeling the rush while clicking through the gears was one of the most exhilarating experiences I've ever had on a motorcycle. It just doesn't stop pulling. I expect at some point we will start to see supercharged/Turboed 300's. A Light, nimble 100hp bike sounds like a blast.

    I've also had the chance to ride the Alta dirt bike recently. For anyone who doesn't know, Alta produces electric dirt bikes. I was skeptical until I rode it, but the power is extremely linear and depending on which mode your in, it's very rideable even with 120ish foot pounds of torque. The fact that the only noise is the chain rotation means it should open up opportunities to ride in places previously outlawed. Could be the future for off-road access.

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  23. #23
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Quote Originally Posted by Koffee View Post
    I've also had the chance to ride the Alta dirt bike recently. For anyone who doesn't know, Alta produces electric dirt bikes. I was skeptical until I rode it, but the power is extremely linear and depending on which mode your in, it's very rideable even with 120ish foot pounds of torque. The fact that the only noise is the chain rotation means it should open up opportunities to ride in places previously outlawed. Could be the future for off-road access.
    Awesome.

    I would love to be able to race an electric SM. I've seen videos of someone running a Zero FXS at OVRP.

    I'd need a bigger generator for Boxshop (no on-site electricity) though.

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  24. #24
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Good news! Harbor Freight has a 3500w inverter that has gotten a couple decent reviews from WERA racers for pretty damn cheap.

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  25. #25
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: The best beginner bike is getting way better!

    Quote Originally Posted by backinthesaddle View Post
    Gotta be better then when Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawi built turbo bikes in the 80's. A friend still has the CX turbo, and I saw a matching pair of GPZ turbos last month.

    1980s Turbo Bikes Shootout
    Dude when I was living in Tennessee I met an old guy with an old kawi turbo.. he put a bigger turbo and shit on it and that thing was FAST. I was on my tl1000 and he walked away from me. Guy was out of his mind. I've never seen a 70 year old man do 150+ before LOL

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