Bike vs Firetruck...who ya got?

[SRTie4k]

And if you're friends, you have a responsibility to see to the health and safety of your other friends, especially if you know they're inexperienced at what they're doing. That's the whole point.

[tls25rs]

No, no, no and fuck no. You, and only you, are responsible for the pace YOU ride at. WTF is wrong with people sometimes. It's not always someone elses fault.

Nope. All in the riders hands. All. That's the beauty of riding. You have control over the vehicle. That control comes with responsibility. Own it.

If your friends take off and leave you, they aren't very good friends.

Though I agree fully with both of these statements I will say that when I wind up on a ride with someone that isn't experienced, or capable of riding with the group, I will more often than not hang back and ride with that person and try to set a reasonable pace for that person. Yes, they are responsible for their own ride but I hate spending time, that I could have been riding, hanging around waiting for an ambulance, answering questions from law enforcement and generally seeing someone I may or may not know being injured.

[nhbubba]

That's because you're a super good doobie.

Level of doobieness aside, the bottom line is the other riders in this incident are in no way "responsible" for this rider's actions. Suggesting they are is pretty shitty.

[tls25rs]

Agreed fully on the "responsible" part. Only person "responsible" for them or their actions is them.

[jwm2k3]

So, in a past life I worked at a motorcycle dealership. I sold bikes to a shite ton of new riders. I love seeing new riders. I hate riding with them. Sorry if that's snobbish or whatever. I've just seen too many not even make it out of the dealership driveway....

I've had many of my customers ask to ride with me, I always declined. They always want to impress their friends with their skill, many of which have zero in the beginning, is as to be expected. Even the MSF graduates don't have throttle control, countersteering or emergency braking as a skill yet....

I was always worried they would crash me, not just crash themselves.

This is why I don't ride in charity group rides. It's a fucking crashing nightmare disaster.

Back to the topic of this video... this dude is super lucky! I'm very glad he lived. Could have gone the other way quite easily. This video is also a good tool to remind about riding techniques and target fixation.

[e30addict]

Though I agree fully with both of these statements I will say that when I wind up on a ride with someone that isn't experienced, or capable of riding with the group, I will more often than not hang back and ride with that person and try to set a reasonable pace for that person. Yes, they are responsible for their own ride but I hate spending time, that I could have been riding, hanging around waiting for an ambulance, answering questions from law enforcement and generally seeing someone I may or may not know being injured.

Agreed. That's a nice thing to do but the responsibility still falls on the other guy as you said.

[SteveM]

If a rider can be influenced to ride beyond their skill level to keep up with their buddies, they possess a maturity and judgment weakness that should preclude them from getting a license regardless of skill or passing the test.

The real test we all face as motorcyclists is judgment. Skills certainly help in an emergency and I don't mean to downplay them, but the judgment we exercise to avoid the emergency is what keeps most of us riding safely.

This is how long I've been riding on the streets, including group rides... I first heard this from "SuperDave" in a parking lot in Sturbridge and first witnessed it 10 minutes into a group ride when an impatient ass passed me on the left in a right hand turn without me waiving him forward. He had to cross the double yellow to do it and I was at 50 in a 30 at the time.

My lack of reaction other than bemusement let me know I might just survive this hobby.

As was the custom, the rider behind both of us said something at the first rest stop and racer boy left in a huff and trail of gravel because we were pussies.

Ahh, the good old days.

[sedanman]

All good points. But, none of us hopped on a bike for the first time and rode as well as we do now. We improved by venturing outside our comfort zones. Sometimes the motivation for riding any little bit above our abilities was the desire to try to keep up with a better rider. Anyone who says the were NEVER so motivated is probably not being honest with themselves. I don't ride with groups of people l don't know well. In any group l ride in there is a discussion before setting off that we will not 'drop' anyone, we'll wait at the next intersection or traffic light for anyone who falls behind. I have mentored total newbs and frankly, do not like it but someone did it for me when I was fresh...... l dragged one of my friends from total newb to a decent, capable rider by very slowly encouraging him to expand his horizons.

[e30addict]

Of course. Pushing limits is a good thing. It's how we learn. Blowing right by them is a different animal. Baby steps and all that.

[Garandman]

I've had many of my customers ask to ride with me, I always declined. They always want to impress their friends with their skill, many of which have zero in the beginning, is as to be expected. Even the MSF graduates don't have throttle control, countersteering or emergency braking as a skill yet....

My wife took her BRC last summer. I thought her riding skills were pretty solid, but her visual habits in traffic were, as you can imagine, undeveloped. It will take some riding in traffic and a few left turners to make her sufficiently paranoid....

[carsick]

If a rider can be influenced to ride beyond their skill level to keep up with their buddies, they possess a maturity and judgment weakness that should preclude them from getting a license regardless of skill or passing the test.

Good judgement comes from bad judgement. We are all fallible. Putting aside the pompous nature of your decree, how would one be tested for such "judgement"? I was a terrible rider in the beginning. Some days I still lack judgement. Riding has enriched my life and improved me as a person. I never would have passed your test, and been denied the opportunity to improve. Ah, who am I kidding, I would have just ridden anyway.

[e30addict]

Hell, I'm 10x the rider I was when I first started riding. I doubt I'd pass Steve's test now

[SteveM]

It's not Steve's test, and it wasn't intended to be a decree.

Think about what we learn in class and on the road. SIPDE, SEE or whatever preach planning, observation and judgment way ahead of execution of skill.

When we begin and our skills are weaker, our judgment should be more conservative. As skills grow with experience, our judgment becomes better as well.

Pushing a little does help expand skill and judgment, but going too far quickly crosses to the dangerous side of the risk management line.

Finally, as has been said here 1000 times, public roads are probably not the best venue for truly pushing your limits to develop your skill.