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Ok, after replacing pretty much every piece of the ignition because the bike would run shitty/not run at all, I finally figured out that it wasnt an ignition problem at all, but instead I'm getting no fuel. I know I'm good up to the carbs, pulled the fuel line at the fuel rail for the carbs, and key'ing on the pump prime gets me plenty of fuel flow there. Engine will start and idle fine if I keep the airbox hosed with ether.
So apparently after 11 years, the carbs have finally gummed up, plugged up, whatever.
Bike is a 95 FZR600, non-california model.
Basically, all I know my issue is, is that I'm not getting any fuel into the chambers at all, beyond that I'm clueless. I have no prior experience with carbs beyond a small engine class I took in high school like 8 years ago. I have the service manual, so if all else fails, I should be able to put everything back together.
Is there anything in particular I should be looking at? I bought some carb cleaner, so assuming I can actually get the carbs off, what am I going to want to take apart and clean?
Any tips on getting the throttle cables off? I think thats going to be my only issue really with getting them off.
Blah blah blah, just looking to not completely fuck this up, any input is appreciated.I'll probably look back in an hour or two, I'll be out in the garage now pulling the bike apart for the 8,000 time.
Used bike
And any general recommendations on wear parts that should generally be replaced. I think I'll just shoot for getting the carbs pulled today and figure out a parts list and tear it down another day.
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
Nobody else has jumped in, so I will. The smallest orifice in a typical carb is the pilot circuit. Usually when they clog, you can get the engine started, but it won't idle worth a damn. Definately check that. Here is one I came across on my RS38 Mikunis. I don't know if your bike has this but if all else fails. Remove the float needle seats and see if it has tiny snap-on screens. My RS carbs did, and one winter sitting dry off the bike, the screens had varnished enough to restrict the flow, but not enough stop it. I came to this after I had exhausted all the other things to check, and I was at wits end. I removed the screens and the bike ran fine. I looked at the screens with a magnifying glass and you could barely see the "fuzz" of dried fuel. I'm not saying this is your problem, just a place to look if you run out of things to check and it still won't run right. Your bike may not have the screens anyways. Anybody else, jump on in here.
the first thing to look for is fuel in the tank
RandyO
IBA#9560
A man with a gun is a citizen
A man without a gun is a subject LETS GO BRANDON
Four carbs all gummed up at once? I dunno...
An air leak due to cracked/leaking intake manifolds (between the carbs & head) can cause enough loss of vaccuum in the carbs that no fuel is drawn in at low revs, and the bike would be a bitch to start. And if the bike has a vaccuum acuated petcock, that would exacerbate the problem.
Have you seen the wx forecast for this Saturday?![]()
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill
Full tank of fresh 89 put in back in November along with the appropriate amount of Sta-Bil.Originally posted by RandyO
the first thing to look for is fuel in the tank
I got the carbs off just fine, the boots are a little dry-rotted, but theres no major cracks that would cause an air leak I dont think.
Its got to be something that would affect all four carbs. On a cold engine, I can get a good haze of starting fluid in the airbox, and it will fire right up after a few cranks, but once the fluid diminishes it starts to bog pretty hard and then just dies and wont restart until I haze it again.
When pulling the carbs, when I lifted them off the boots, once I tipped them towards the front of the bike trying to unhook the throttle return cable, I got probably a tablespoon of fuel that dumped out the bottom of each carb, so theres definitely fuel in the carbs themselves.
At this point it might be worth pulling them and replacing all the jets/floats and seals, although if I could just get it running at this point I'd be pleased.
Any ideas on a central part that would affect all 4 carbs from getting fuel to the head?
Idle adjust and choke cables both work fine, so nothing jammed up there, and fuel IN the carbs, so (presumably) no blockage between the fuel rail and the carbs themselves. Bleh.
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
And yes........part of my motivation for diving into the carbs today.Originally posted by ChR1s
Four
Have you seen the wx forecast for this Saturday?![]()
Although getting it fixed by the weekend is highly unlikely, at least I'll be ready for the following nice weather.
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
Sounds like an ultra lean condition.Originally posted by JeffL
I got the carbs off just fine, the boots are a little dry-rotted, but theres no major cracks that would cause an air leak I dont think.
Its got to be something that would affect all four carbs. On a cold engine, I can get a good haze of starting fluid in the airbox, and it will fire right up after a few cranks, but once the fluid diminishes it starts to bog pretty hard and then just dies and wont restart until I haze it again.
With it running, spray some shit over the manifolds to check for a variation that would indicate a leak existing.
I've had the exact same issue, but with an older bike. That bike had a vaccuum acuated petcock. Both the intake boots and petcock were fucked.
How about running fuel from an auxillary tank to the fuel rail, to rule out a starvation problem? I mean, you'll be wanting to synch those carbs anyway, once it's running.![]()
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill
Heres a really silly thought.![]()
I was looking at the carbs, and left them tilted on their side, the one that would be towards the back of the bike, not sure which part that is, but each pair of carbs has a breather tube coming off these back parts. I carried my fuel tank out to the shed, and when I came back, fuel had dumped out of both of these tubes, a good bit, maybe an 1/8 of a cup?
I'm assuming the back parts are some sort of diaphragm pump maybe? Well, with a full tank of gas (level sitting well above the carbs), my petcock has always bled by a little, is it possible the carbs have just been EXTREMELY flooded? I had kind of thought about this before, so any time I got it running I'd crank on it a few times and hope I was helping to clear them out, but maybe that was no help.
Is that a possibility? That the carbs were just so full of fuel they were pretty much FUBAR?
BTW, its a manual petcock, on/off/reserve.
And I *may* at some points have forgotten to turn the petcock off this winter.![]()
![]()
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
What, you haven't listened yet to what the sparkplugs have to say about this?
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill
Heres what the plugs that were in there looked like, just went out and snapped it. All the plugs look more or less the same.Originally posted by ChR1s
What, you haven't listened yet to what the sparkplugs have to say about this?
![]()
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
Suck on the petcock hose
gas should pour out of the carb hose
clogged screen or bad diaphragm
whip it off and clean it out including internals
If it was flooded ether shouldn't help
Check for manifold plugs or the carb balancing hoses are all sealed.
I use black silicone seal to shmear over cracked manifold rubber seals em up makes um shiny.
Just carefully (impact driver) take off float bowls and clean everything out nice then check float levels. I am sure you will see something obvious. Good Luck
Glen Beck is John the Baptist
Yeah, with the carbs off I overturned them and got a pretty good amount of fuel that dumped out of the breather tubes on the backside of each pair of carbs. Would a single diapraghm going bad affect all 4 cylinders though?Originally posted by richw
Suck on the petcock hose
gas should pour out of the carb hose
clogged screen or bad diaphragm
whip it off and clean it out including internals
If it was flooded ether shouldn't help
Check for manifold plugs or the carb balancing hoses are all sealed.
I use black silicone seal to shmear over cracked manifold rubber seals em up makes um shiny.
Just carefully (impact driver) take off float bowls and clean everything out nice then check float levels. I am sure you will see something obvious. Good Luck
I dont know if the amount of gas that dumped out was waayyy too much, or normal, I'm gonna try throwing them back on tomorrow maybe and see if it will fire, if not, I'll pull them again and check the bowls. Getting to the internals, and paying for parts to fix them is the last thing I want to do.
By the way, if anyone wants to come down and fuck around with them this weekend or anything for the price of a case of beer and food in their tummy, I'm more than happy to let you.Or hell, the carbs are off, I'd be happy to drive to anyones house if they've got nothing better to do and wouldnt mind poking through my carbs some afternoon this weekend.
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
Yes the gas is on.......I'm not completely inept.
I think I may have kind of answered my own question. Spark, compression, fuel to and IN the carbs, last step really is the jets. Is it possible that somehow all 4 of the starter and/or idle jets got clogged with shit, especially since this all started after I added the Sta-Bil and ran the bike to circulate it around?
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
Did you run the bike for a few minutes after putting in the sta-bil to make sure that the sta-bil gas got into the carbs?Originally posted by JeffL
Full tank of fresh 89 put in back in November along with the appropriate amount of Sta-Bil.
If not, there's a good chance that your needles are gummed up with varnish and that's why you're not getting fuel.
Take the carburetors apart one at a time, paying close attention to where each piece goes. There's no magic to carburetors, but if you forget a needle or a spring somewhere they won't run right. Pull off the rubber parts like the vacuum diaphragm and the float bowl gasket and set them aside, don't let any carb cleaner get on them as it will damage them.
Once you get everything apart, soak the metal parts in carb cleaner. Pay special attention to the small brass "jets" as those tend to be what gets clogged. If you can remove them and soak them independently that is best (use a small screwdriver and be careful, they're made of soft metal), otherwise just soak the whole assembly once you've removed any rubber/plastic parts.
Now wipe down / blow out (if you've got a compressor) every orifice until there's no more carb cleaner left, and reassemble the carburetor. Not a bad idea to sync the carburetors up after this either if you can get your hands on a mercury gauge, but the bike should fire up and idle allright without that.
dont be so cocky...it isnt about being inept...people have been bitten by lesser things....Originally posted by JeffL
Yes the gas is on.......I'm not completely inept.
I think I may have kind of answered my own question. Spark, compression, fuel to and IN the carbs, last step really is the jets. Is it possible that somehow all 4 of the starter and/or idle jets got clogged with shit, especially since this all started after I added the Sta-Bil and ran the bike to circulate it around?
look for a pinched line too...
I checked the fuel line for kinks, I even pulled it at the carbs and thumbed the on/off to prime the pump and got flow there, so I know theres fuel TO the carbs, its just getting out of them. Maybe I'll just start drilling holes, that would get the fuel out for sure.![]()
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
Check all of your vacuum lines going to and from the tank,and engine. Your problem may be a vacuum activated fuel petcock feeding the carbs. If the vacuum is just ok it will let enough gas into the carbs to look like it should run but not enough to fire the whore up. Sounds simple but may actually be the problem!!!
Say it VACUUM. VACUUM. Doesn't look like it's spelled right but it is says www.dictionary.com.
So anyways check the vacuum that makes the fuell flow to the carbs.
One last thing when you pull the plugaaazzzz are they wet or dry. I agree it sounds like a fuell issue no doubt!!!
KB
I like scotch
Yeah, now that I think about it, the bike sat with like a 1/4 tank of gas for nearly 2 months before I "winterized" it and it didnt run that whole time. I think my best bet is plugged up jets/needles. Should I pull off the diapraghm side of the carbs too, or will I be ok just pulling the bowl side and removing the jets individually and cleaning them? Or for whats it worth, is it just as easy to pull the diaphraghm side and soak the whole damn thing in cleaner?
Is the carb cleaner going to affect all the plastic parts, or would I be ok with leaving the choke assembly on?
Plugs have always been dry when I pulled them, and its a manual petcock, not a vacuum activated one. Although I did remove all the breather hoses and blow through them to make sure all were clear, they were.
Ugh, OEM gaskets are so expensive, I hope mine arent in too bad of shape.
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
Hey Jeff...I've got an AWESOME idea!! How 'bout a newer bike??
![]()
I'd hate to hear about you breaking down every other day come riding season.![]()
My shit:
2004 Yamaha FZ6 (Naked....mmmmmmm) (FOR SALE!!!! CONTACT ME FOR INFO!)
2004 Mini Cooper - Deal's Gap tested and approved
Guys on sportbikes are so hot....until they take their helmet off. Just leave the damn thing on already!
Beware the counterfeit Mini!
Hey, if you're buying, I'm game.Originally posted by FazerChic
Hey Jeff...I've got an AWESOME idea!! How 'bout a newer bike??
![]()
I'd hate to hear about you breaking down every other day come riding season.![]()
I mean, after I get this done, what else could possibly go wrong? LOL
Other than the entire drivetrain and suspension......I've pretty much replaced everything else.
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
but there are quite a few morons out there too + most of them don't even know it !Originally posted by bigred875
dont be so cocky...it isnt about being inept...people have been bitten by lesser things....
look for a pinched line too...
How dumb could I possibly be? I mean, look at my avatar!
I know a little about everything, and alot about nothing.
If the carbs are off the bike you should go through them completely, every nook and cranny, take them completely apart and clean everything. So many times carbs have been cleaned half a** and don't work then you go through everything again just to find out if they had been cleaner right the first time they would have fixed the problem. If you don't have the tools to clean the jets and orifices take the carbs to the dealership and have them clean them. Off the bike it shouldn't take long and they'll have the specs to get the settings back to OEM.
2001 Silver ZX-12R... RIP
2005 KDX 200