CARB threat to civilization

[highsider]

Originally posted by bentbryan
For every scientist that says the world's oil supply is in jeopordy, there's another scientiest who says that it's not.

Its true, how the hell would they know?

Either way, the black gold is still cutting a nice hole in the ozone layer......

[bigred875]

Originally posted by highsider
Its true, how the hell would they know?

Either way, the black gold is still cutting a nice hole in the ozone layer......

sure..and how can they be sure about that as well...

any of this shit..it is all moot

When it is "time" it's time...and there aint shit we are going to be able to do about it....

the truth is there is no absolute on any of this.....both sides..

[highsider]

Originally posted by bigred875
sure..and how can they be sure about that as well...

any of this shit..it is all moot

When it is "time" it's time...and there aint shit we are going to be able to do about it....

the truth is there is no absolute on any of this.....both sides..

Its actually kinda frightening, because all of these "well respected" scientists have something different to say.....but I dont believe I've ever read anything that was actually contrary to us having a hole in the ozone layer, that seems to be universally excepted.

Plus, have you ever seen San Francisco on a murky morning

[bentbryan]

I read somewhere that there are vast sources of oil, it's just that we don't have the technology yet to access them.

[benVFR]

Originally posted by bigred875
[B]When it is "time" it's time...and there aint shit we are going to be able to do about it....

You don't get it? This IS about doing something about it ahead of time. We don't have to sit with our heads in the sand and weight to be fucked when "it's time".

If Gas goes to $10/gallon or even $100/gallon tomorrow our whole economy is going to stop. We don't know when that is going to happen, but we know it is eventually going to happen. CARB and the like are our way of being prepared when that day comes...

There something we will do about it if we don't prepare though, we will go to war to get our oil... you can bet your last gallon fuel on it.

[highsider]

Originally posted by bentbryan
I read somewhere that there are vast sources of oil, it's just that we don't have the technology yet to access them.

Click here

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe...lobal.warming/

[bentbryan]

It doesn't state whether the supplies are accessible or not. Maybe they just take into account oil that we can reach?

[benVFR]

Originally posted by bentbryan
I read somewhere that there are vast sources of oil, it's just that we don't have the technology yet to access them.

There is oil that we don't get right now because it is not cost effective for the oil companies to pump it.

When all the easily accessible oil is pumped they will start pumping the more difficult stuff and developing new technologies... however that oil is going to be more expensive. Eventually the oil gets so expensive that it will hurt our economy a lot.

If you read up on oil wells (very interesting), there are different "generations" of oil production out of an oil field... in the early stages you can just pump oil out with a vertical oil well, the cheapest type. In later stages they start do all kinds of interesting things like digging horizontal shafts into pockets of oil, filling the well with water and then pumping the water out and processing it, etc, etc..

One of the reasons for the doom and gloom and projections is looking at what percentage of oil fields are using advanced techniques.. it is starting to be more and more, especially for example in Saudi Arabia.. this is what I was referring to when I said I think the Saudi's are blowing smoke up our asses. They will tell us that many of their oil fields have so much oil left that they can just pump them out, but US scientists and oil companies can tell based on what is going on that this is not true and they are in fact using advanced techniques on a much greater percentage of wells than they will admit too.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by highsider
Its actually kinda frightening, because all of these "well respected" scientists have something different to say.....but I dont believe I've ever read anything that was actually contrary to us having a hole in the ozone layer, that seems to be universally excepted.

Plus, have you ever seen San Francisco on a murky morning

right..and who is sure what that effect really has on us..

there are STILL scientists the swear the world is flat...

You don't get it?

ok..obviously this is going somewhere I DO get it..and we ARE doing things to prepare for it... there is no need whatsoever for a total change of the worlds lifestyle...

Please explain to me how gas will go up to $10 a gallon tomorrow..

ya know you libs never cease to amaze me...seriously..it is like this Iraq ordeal...the second things are not going 100% the right way you guys go into a "the world is ending" panic...

If you read my previous posts I agreed with Highsider stating that I agree we have to start getting the ball rolling on this...and WE ARE..

but relax already...cripes

[bigred875]

There are no absolutes in this stuff...

If there were the pesky big bang vs. god the creator thing would have been sorted out a long time ago..lol

the earth has been here for a very long time and if you think 100 years of us being here is going to kill everything you have another thing coming...

as far as I know the dinosaurs didn't have hair spray or SUV's and they stick got fucked...

[R7]

Originally posted by highsider
Richw, I'm going to attempt to make a clear argument with you, although I fear I might be wasting my time; you make some pretty grandiose claims with very little to back them up.

He's been that way for 5 years now, try riding with him sometime

[highsider]

Originally posted by bigred875

as far as I know the dinosaurs didn't have hair spray or SUV's and they stick got fucked...

[benVFR]

How is CARB a doom and gloom scenario that the world must change overnight?

This is basic stuff, it is utterly retarded that we went to the moon and can blow up countries at will and we couldn't achieve little things like the CARB standards...

e.x. one of the CARB standards that got pushed back in the last four years was a stupid thing like "Increase average fuel economy by 5mpg over 10 years."

We should have EASILY been able to increase the average economy by 5mpg in ten years...

This is NOT doom and gloom the world is ending tomorrow we are taking your car away stuff.

[hohum]

OK, I wasn't going to hop in on this... buuuuut

a) Oil is a finite resource, if you disagree with this, then sorry your just plain dumb. No cookie for you.
b) If we accept that oil is a finite resource, then we should at least take some steps, even just baby steps, in the direction of finding other alternative power sources and in the direction of being able to get more energy out per gallon burned (in theory we should be able to attain about 80MPG as the max fuel effiency of an internal combustion gasoline engine given internal engine resistance, so a 5MPG mandated increase is NOTHING)
c) CARB is a SMALL step towards those goals

I don't think me or my potential children are likely to be left holding the bag when we run out of oil, but that's no reason to stick our head in the sand and stop innovating just because there is no crisis at hand right now. We can send the Library of Congress' entire collection worth of data around the world and back in under a minute, yet we can't go to work without burning dead dinosaurs? What other technologies have evolved as SLOWLY as our means of locomotion?

It shouldn't be a liberal vs. conservative thing, the fact is that we should be putting loads of money and research into this, way more than we do now. It can be done without harming business, after all, the largest producers of CO2 are cars, not power plants and the like. The short and skinny of it is, we can do better, and we should, and anyone who opposes even trying to do better is missing some big part of the picture.

Cheers,
Chris

[CheshireNinja]

One of the big factors of oil cost is the amount of energy required to extract oil from the earth. As a oil field matures it requires more energy to extract oil. There is a lot of oil left in the world, but its getting increasinly difficult to extract. Oil has a fixed chemical potential energy, soon there will come the day where the energy contained in the oil is less then the amount required to extract it. 6 years ago I did a project on this and found that line to cross in 2005, yes that means next year. Admitedly this was 6 years ago, but I doubt highly that so much has changed to put that off all that much.

This is a graph of the production versus demand.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by benVFR
How is CARB a doom and gloom scenario that the world must change overnight?

This is basic stuff, it is utterly retarded that we went to the moon and can blow up countries at will and we couldn't achieve little things like the CARB standards...

e.x. one of the CARB standards that got pushed back in the last four years was a stupid thing like "Increase average fuel economy by 5mpg over 10 years."

We should have EASILY been able to increase the average economy by 5mpg in ten years...

This is NOT doom and gloom the world is ending tomorrow we are taking your car away stuff.

I'm not..and to tell you the truth I do not know a lot about them..I am generalizing..

I am not disagreeing with you guys but as hohum pointed out we are taking steps to help this problem...

CheshireNinja - nice graph..lol I'm convinced now..lol

[benVFR]

Yah my example is actually wrong too I was also generalizing.. I was referring to CAFE, not CARB...

CARB is just California Air Resource Board..

The emissions ratings on cars refer to their standards. E.x. "Low Emissions" "Very low Emissions" "Zero Emissions", etc..

They don't necessarily dicate that trucks and SUVs won't pass. A truck today might not pass a standard for 10 years from now but in 10 years they probably will...

I can't find anything that CARB has done recently that would have set richw off.. maybe he can give us more specific info on what he is worried about...

I also don't think the government is forcing you to buy cars which meet CARB standards. The only power California has over cars is in California. The car makers build cars that meet these standards because California is a huge market and MARKET FORCES dictate that it is smart to build cars that you can sell in California.

[oreo_n2]

Originally posted by hohum

a) Oil is a finite resource, if you disagree with this, then sorry your just plain dumb. No cookie for you.

First of all.... My pimp gets to decide who does and does not get cookie... not you!


second of all... how weird is this?! Two people admitting mistakes in one thread... wow!!! If this rate keeps up, in another week or two without the squid there will be man hugs. AAAAGGGGHHHHHH!

[CheshireNinja]

Originally posted by benVFR
I also don't think the government is forcing you to buy cars which meet CARB standards. The only power California has over cars is in California. The car makers build cars that meet these standards because California is a huge market and MARKET FORCES dictate that it is smart to build cars that you can sell in California. [/B]

Thus we need government regulation or else market forces will go to the cheapest cars available and those tend to be old technology, gas guzzlers, with ineffecient engines, and little computerization. Kinda GM like.

[SEVENSGT]

Originally posted by TheIglu
The batteries on these "new" Hybrid vehicles are expected to last more than 100,000 miles.

So I would have to buy a new battery every 3 years, plus maitainence.......

[R7]

Originally posted by CheshireNinja


The sky IS falling, oil is running out, prices are rising. PRICES WILL NEVER GO DOWN AGAIN! Very shortly, America will have to deal with $3 per gallon, then $4, then $5, and so on. The presidents will do what they can to keep it down and keep up the propoganda telling us that everything is fine. But the fact of the matter is, its not.

Price dropped amost $.20 per gallon here in less than 2 weeks

[SEVENSGT]

Originally posted by highsider
Either way, the black gold is still cutting a nice hole in the ozone layer......

it's not just the black gold, it's the wood you northern fucks burn, it the pellets in the stoves........ The hole is always gonna be there, just be glad that it hovers over anartica

[SEVENSGT]

Originally posted by R7
Price dropped amost $.20 per gallon here in less than 2 weeks

no shit, I went away for 2 days, and come back to $1.87....Fuggin Aye


edit: At a Mobil the pricyest

[R7]

Originally posted by SEVENSGT
it's not just the black gold, it's the wood you northern fucks burn, it the pellets in the stoves........ The hole is always gonna be there, just be glad that it hovers over anartica

It's the air planes i tell ya

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by SEVENSGT
So I would have to buy a new battery every 3 years, plus maitainence.......

The money you will save on gas alone will more than pay for 3 sets of batteries every 100,000 miles.