Cold tires and cold road

[netra709]

Let me preface this by saying I'm more of an offroad guy than street. About 25yrs offroad, about 2000 miles street.
I went out for a ride today on the VFR, and was surprised how easily the rear tire broke loose and slid while pulling out onto the street. My question is, in cold temps like today, do the tires ever warm up and grip like in warmer weather? Or would it take a softer compound for the colder temps? Thanks Tim

[RandyO]

I run knobbies in winter, the knobs flex more than regular street tread and warm up instead of staying hockey puck rubber

in 120/70-17 & 160/60-17 size Pirelli MDR60-Corsas work well

I am told in 180/60 rear size, Avon Extreme Wets work well

on my V-strom I run Karoo Ts , some people I know run TKC80s

[butcher bergs]

My question is, in cold temps like today, do the tires ever warm up and grip like in warmer weather?

Yes and no.

'Yes' if you can heat them up on the sides as well (which takes a long time)and continue to ride hard enough to retain that heat through out the tread pattern (kinda difficult considering the number of cages rolling around).

'No' if you are simply commuting (for example) because the sides of the tires don't spend much time in contact with the road surface.

Or would it take a softer compound for the colder temps?

Soft compounds are still rock-hard at "chilly" temps.

[BostonSVkid]

I was out riding (mostly highway) and had the rear spin a bit a few times. 33 degrees was a bit chilly today with no heated gear. I was wearing full leathers with winter gear on top of that and stayed pretty warm other than my hands.

[DucDave]

I ride year round unless there is snow or ice on the road. I believe that tires warm as a result of carcass flexing...not so much the friction of rubber on the road. It takes a bit longer but at my normal pace my tires are usually more than good enough after 3 or 4 miles. But I'm a pretty slow rider so maybe I don't really test their grip as much as you do...

Do be sure to check your tire pressure however....when cold, of course....!

[akira700]

What kind of tires do you have? How many miles?

On my Pilot Powers I would really have to work hard
to break them loose during normal street riding.

[RandyO]

I believe that tires warm as a result of carcass flexing...not so much the friction of rubber on the road. !

that's what the tire experts say at least

wagging back & forth does nothing to warm tires, acceleration & decelleration, flexes tires the most and warms them quickest

a couple psi less than normal will help the carcass flex more

[butcher bergs]

friction = heat

No?

[akira700]

friction = heat

No?

That's friction in the carcass not just the tire surface.

[ZX-12R]

friction = heat

No?

It does, but static friction (as in your tire rolling on the ground) generates little heat where kinetic friction (as in your tire sliding on the ground) generates lots of heat.

[butcher bergs]

That's friction in the carcass not just the tire surface.

It does, but static friction (as in your tire rolling on the ground) generates little heat where kinetic friction (as in your tire sliding on the ground) generates lots of heat.

Would this be along the same lines as taking a Bic pen cap and bending the "nub" back and forth? Try it...the plastic gets hot when you bend it back and forth.

Something along those lines?

[ZX-12R]

Exactly

[TheIglu]

Exactly

You remember my black squiggly lines on long 80mph sweepers in the KLR?


SAME THING!

[ZX-12R]

I still laugh when I think about that ride. I completely enjoyed watching your KLR go every which way but straight!

I seem to remember the KLR topping out about 20MPH faster though...

[RandyO]

acceleration & decelleration stretches & compresses the rubber, waging may help distribute the heat a little but doesn't flex the carcass a whole lot

motorcycle tirs carcasses are not shaped like Nascar rubber so when you wag side to side there is no scuffing, the tire just rolls

http://www.ftwracing.net/vbb/weaving...warm-t43.html?

[beet]

always knocked a few lbs pres.off in the cold.

[butcher bergs]

On the tire heating up:

I definitely learned something new today!

(and they say this place has changed)

[richw]

Older sport tires after many heat cycles will stiffen and the surface definitely changes to a more plastic slipperier compound.

My metzlers were not COLD tires when new now the surface cold feels and grips like plastic till hot.

I think your situation could be easy to determine after a ride just put your hand on the tread surface should be warm not burning your fingers.

I do think it would be safe and prudent to take like 4 psi off the rear and 3 off the front to start.

Also the traditional slalom down the road to help warm them

[QuarterGig]

i ride under the assumption that they do not warm up in these cold temps.. the cold pavement pulls the heat out. i have been checking my tires when i get home and they are not what i would call warm..

[RandyO]

with knobbies, when I pull to the side of the road where there is snow, I usually see steam rolling off the tires, an indication to me that they are warm

[Degsy]

Also the traditional slalom down the road to help warm them

nah, it doesn't.

[Kitt]

I hate riding on cold tires... viva floreeduh!

degs - i can buy this in the cold, but are you saying the edges of my track tires heat up just as fast with 0 lean accel decel than 80% turns? Or does your comment mostly apply to cold weather stuff?

I always think (maybe placebo effect) that the edges are "cleaner" and "sticker" after a few laps of using that particular part of the tire surface.

[Crash Dummy Denno]

As far as getting heat into a tire... The carcass of a motorcycle tire heats up evenly through hard acceleration and heavy braking - weaving just makes you look like an idiot! When someone tells you they are worried that the right side of the tire isn't warm because they only took lefts , they are incorrect.

If we are talking about scrubbing in the surface then yes leaning over still accomplishes that.

Denno

[Kitt]

As far as getting heat into a tire... The carcass of a motorcycle tire heats up evenly through hard acceleration and heavy braking - weaving just makes you look like an idiot! When someone tells you they are worried that the right side of the tire isn't warm because they only took lefts , they are incorrect.

If we are talking about scrubbing in the surface then yes leaning over still accomplishes that.

Denno

good to know... my Effin heat transfer professor can sucka D... he lied to me then!

I still didn't get how heat is transferred from the center of the tire to the entire carcass immediately, and simultaneously. I guess I was thinking it had more to do with tire to road friction and less carcass deformation. Are you sure you aren't discounting the energy created by the friction?

I'm on the fence, so a good argument wins me over... but im just trying to understand it better so I can rule out my myths and placebos.

[Qfactor]

I heat up my tires w/ a propane torch on cold mornings...

Q