CR Reliability ratings

[Garandman]

See if this graphic shows up,

[golden chicken]

I see it.

[carsick]

Can you zoom out enough so we can see Suzuki, Ducati, etc?

[Rambunctous]

Whats the percentage of people with problems that own bikes?

[boosten lebaron]

ive owned all of those and i find it close but i would change a few of those. some of my bikes date back about a dozen years so it my not hold much value now. my thoughts against the poll using the companies listed.

best to worse
honda
suzuki
yamaha
kawasaki
harley
bmw.

[Garandman]

Always a caveat on CR ratings: they don't reveal any of the actual data, and use additional criteria to what is shown in the reports. For example, they test tires in an ice rink at 10mph to evaluate snow tire stopping ability, but don't disclose the actual stopping distances. I suspect they know even less about motorcycles than cars.

Can you zoom out enough so we can see Suzuki, Ducati, etc?

"Although we didn’t receive adequate data to include Suzuki and Triumph motorcycles in our analysis, the responses we got suggest that Suzukis provided similar reliability as the other Japanese brands and Triumphs were among the more problematic brands."

What’s going wrong

Among the bikes that needed repairs, respondents reported having the most trouble with accessories, such as lights, instruments, switches, and radios (21 percent); brakes (20 percent); the electrical system (16 percent); and the fuel system (15 percent). Our experts suggest that some of the fuel-system problems may be due to improper storage during the off-season.

Mechanical engine problems were relatively rare, with only 3 percent having trouble with the cylinder head or valvetrain, or with the crankcase, crankshaft, or pistons. Similarly, only 3 percent needed transmission repairs, although 7 percent had clutch problems.

Fortunately, most repairs were fairly inexpensive and were performed quickly. Seventy-five percent of all repairs cost less than $200 out-of-pocket, and about two-thirds of the repaired bikes were back on the road within a couple of days.

Here's a shocker: companies that spend a lot of money on "branding" - establishing an emotional attachment to their products - have higher levels of satisfaction despite lower levels of reliability.

Satisfying brands

Despite the higher number of problems, Harley and BMW owners were among the most satisfied with their bikes. When we asked whether, considering everything, they would buy their bike again if they had it to do over, 75 percent of Harley owners said definitely yes, closely followed by 74 percent of BMW owners and 72 percent of Honda owners. By contrast, only 63 and 60 percent of Yamaha and Kawasaki owners, respectively, were as emphatic.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...cles/index.htm

[stoinkythepig]

Here's a shocker: companies that spend a lot of money on "branding" - establishing an emotional attachment to their products - have higher levels of satisfaction despite lower levels of reliability.

This is not much of a shock to me. People that buy bikes based on brand aren't concerned with much else. Not saying that's a bad thing; the emotional pleasure one gets from pride of ownership can easily outweigh the downside of owning something that's not as practical as it could be.

[SRTie4k]

So does this mean its now cool to hate BMW's instead of Harley's?

[Rambunctous]

So does this mean its now cool to hate BMW's instead of Harley's?

Nope. But if they take the mufflers off then yes.

[jwm2k3]

As interesting as this study is, Im not affected or surprised at all. To me, motorcycling is about the emotion and feel I get. Not how much fuel economy or the reliability of the bike. I guess that because I dont really use ot for transportation......moreso just entertainment and enjoyment.

[csmutty]

YAMAHAMAHAHAMA FTW!

[carsick]

Whats the percentage of people with problems that own bikes?

That seems a more relevant question! If it's a problem to spend all your time and money on bike stuff, then all owners have a problem.

"Although we didn’t receive adequate data to include Suzuki and Triumph motorcycles in our analysis, the responses we got suggest that Suzukis provided similar reliability as the other Japanese brands and Triumphs were among the more problematic brands."



Here's a shocker: companies that spend a lot of money on "branding" - establishing an emotional attachment to their products - have higher levels of satisfaction despite lower levels of reliability.

It occurs to me in retrospect that there were probably damn few CR reading respondents that owned sportbikes. Probably a lot of that data was for farkled tourers and cruisers. And a lot of dealer repairs for simple things. Hard to imagine gixxah squids checking CR to determine their next bike purchase.

And the advertising/ brand loyalty in the face of irrefutable evidence to the high cost of ownership and poor quality is rampant with Euro cars. It's like a cult. Subaru might qualify too. I should know, I've got one.

[gregp]

I would also suspect that KTM is right there with HD, in terms of reliability/complaints, and also with the brand satisfaction.

[nhbubba]

...most trouble with accessories, such as lights, instruments, switches, and radios (21 percent)...

Accessories? So that's how Suzuki keeps reliability up! We don't need no stinkin' accessories!

As interesting as this study is, Im not affected or surprised at all. To me, motorcycling is about the emotion and feel I get. Not how much fuel economy or the reliability of the bike.

I agree with you to a point. I feel this way about most of CR's reviews of autos too. I'm not interested in driving a beige toaster. If I were, their opinion would matter more to me. But I'm not.

OTOH, a bike that constantly breaks isn't any fun. Bought the thing to ride, not wrench on (or worse, to schedule dealer visits for).

[jwm2k3]

I agree with you to a point. I feel this way about most of CR's reviews of autos too. I'm not interested in driving a beige toaster. If I were, their opinion would matter more to me. But I'm not.

OTOH, a bike that constantly breaks isn't any fun. Bought the thing to ride, not wrench on (or worse, to schedule dealer visits for).

This is why I like to own bikes with less than 10k miles.....

[nhbubba]

I'd be selling a bike every year!

It just occurred to me that you and I are both owners of VAG products.

[R7]

I can say having owned Yamaha's mostly, being a member of NESR for 12 years and reading peoples bike related problems/posts, that chart seems accurate to me.
Even though I just got my Italian queen, I'm already excited for the day a new R1 comes out and I get to say goodby to her!

[reks95]

This is why I like to own bikes with less than 10k miles.....

I put up more than 10k miles last year. Can you explain to my wife that I'm due for a new bike?

[brady]

This is why I like to own bikes with less than 10k miles.....

I wouldn't buy a bike I didn't trust for at least 20K.

[G21forme]

I put up more than 10k miles last year. Can you explain to my wife that I'm due for a new bike?

I wouldn't buy a bike I didn't trust for at least 20K.

This and this

[R7]

I wouldn't buy a bike I didn't trust for at least 20K.

So in other words, you're always going to buy Japanese

[brady]

So in other words, you're always going to buy Japanese

Bingo.



Though to be completely honest I still dream of a windfall and sneaking a certain Italian brand into the house for a weekly fling

[csmutty]

I would also suspect that KTM is right there with HD, in terms of reliability/complaints, and also with the brand satisfaction.

I'd agree to disagree.

[Not Sure]

This is always one area where my attention deficit issue with motorcycles helps me, as I've never owned a bike that was out of warranty or had more than 10K miles.

I'm sure diving into the details behind the survey and data would help provide interesting context around these results. I've owned a number of Euro bikes and have had a few minor issues with them, but nothing that ever prevented them from being ridden or had them tied up at a shop for any length of time. In some cases I'd guess the results here are tied to additional technologies and features certain bikes have that others do not. Generally speaking the more "stuff" on the bike (electronics, safety features, etc.) the more opportunity for something to get hosed up. My experiences with this have only been tied to minor issues, like a fuel cell strip on a brand new BMW a few years ago being defective.

I say ride the bikes and brands that get you excited when you open the garage door, and that you can swing financially. Hopefully those two things align.

[Garandman]

This is typical of CR. They note that only 3% of all repairs are serious mechanical problems. So they focus on relatively minor problems and exaggerate the difference. BMW's have a three year warranty. So even if they have more problems, they are not having problems that are out-of-pocket for the owner. I don't think anyone who buys a European product expects the kind of reliability that the Japanese deliver.

BMW's, Jeeps and Minis all have higher-than-average problems and repairs - and higher customer satisfaction. Automotive brand satisfaction
Toyota
Ford
Honda
Chevrolet
Mercedes
Volvo
Cadillac
BMW

Automotive loyalty ranking
Porsche
Jaguar
BMW
Audi
Mercedes
Land Rover
Lexus
Cadillac
Last three places: Toyota, Chevrolet and Honda

Notice that all the highest loyalty ratings are "premium" or "luxury" brands? This very clearly demonstrates the emotional attachment many buyers attach to the brand they purchase. That's why those companies spend so much on "branding."