How do I determine if I'm over-taxing my battery/charging system?

[jeantarrou]

Hey guys,

I was planning on installing some heated grips and it occurred to me that maybe I should make sure I'm not asking too much of the bike?

At most I'd have a heated liner plugged in and be charging my cellphone via a couple of PowerLet plugs, as well as the heated grips. Can anyone explain to me how I go about confirming that I'm ok to do this? If the answer is OBVIOUSLY yes could someone still help me with the technical side? Also, any concerns if I was to install a lithium battery?

Thanks

[RandyO]

install a voltmeter or a voltage monitor, if it is staying above 13v everything is ok, if it drops below 12.7 be concerned

Li batteries do not work as well in cold weather as an AGM battery or conventional lead acid battery

[Garandman]

You can get the specs for alternator, then find out how much excess capacity you have. Heated grips are usually pretty low draw: 18 watts or so. Most bikes have from 50 to hundreds of watts capacity so heated grips are usually a safe bet. When yo start getting into heated grips and a heated jacket (90W or so), auxiliary lighting etc you have to be careful.

Do you have a 12V plug? They sell voltmeters that plug into them so you can see what is going on. Super handy for cars, bikes, boats, snowmobiles, tractors etc. $10-15. Multi-testers can be had for similar price though.

[jeantarrou]

Ok, that sounds pretty simple, and conveniently the Hyper has a voltmeter on the dash I can scroll to.

I did some googling and it looks like I should have almost 200w available to me, that appears to be more than enough? Whats the alternator output of my 2008 hypermotard? - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum

And stupid question, I didn't think bikes had alternators, just the stator and R/R?? Are these one in the same?

[RandyO]

Ok, that sounds pretty simple, and conveniently the Hyper has a voltmeter on the dash I can scroll to.

I did some googling and it looks like I should have almost 200w available to me, that appears to be more than enough? Whats the alternator output of my 2008 hypermotard? - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum

And stupid question, I didn't think bikes had alternators, just the stator and R/R?? Are these one in the same?

the stator is just part of the alternator, you also have a rotor containing permanent magnets, together they are called an alternator rather than a generator because they produce 3 phase AC current. This is a magneto type alternator. The RR then rectifies the AC current into DC current and regulates the voltage

[whynot]

Looks like you've got your answers, I'll just add that I have run full heated gear on my Hyper 796, that is, gloves, jacket & pants liners, and socks, too, no problems.

And +1 on the AGM battery, I had one in my KLR that started the bike right through four winters, still going strong for the second owner after 5 years. I used a USA-made "Big Crank" battery from Battery Mart
Big Crank Batteries - BatteryMart.com

HTH

[jeantarrou]

Awesome, thanks for the replies guys.

[MattR302]

On both my street bikes, I bought a $5 ebay china waterproof LCD voltmeter and installed them on the dash. Prior to this, I've had to push start my FZ6 due to running heated gear and my dual headlight mod - FZ6's have crappy alternator output.
They also sell the green-yellow-red LED voltage monitors which are smaller and more inconspicuous.

[Stromper]

Last comment

Most bikes make LITTLE excess current at idle
Randy is correct your looking for 13.4V for happy and battery charging while underway

The important is at 2000 rpm and above to supply accessory power. There is almost never a reason to idle the bike for long periods

So check voltage holding the motor at 2000 rpm if you still have 13.4 or above everything is happy

PSST Make sure your on the cold side of ignition. I run a relay triggered by the license plate light as a cold line under the seat

[nhbubba]

Sounds like your bike has a built in voltage monitor, which is handy.
I've decided that every primary street/touring ride I have will always be equipped with something like this voltage monitor. Small, simple, always there.



Voltage Monitor

My experience is that as the battery ages my capacity to drive accessories diminishes. Keeping an eye on voltage at speed tells me a lot about the condition of the battery and charging system. If something starts to fail, knowing levels are dropping gives me an opportunity to shut down and disconnect accessories. My bike has a dual headlight assembly and I've gone so far as to disconnect one bulb to save a few amps and make it home.

[Stromper]

I have a signal dynamics LED voltage monitor

just an LED pocking out green, yellow, red

[nhbubba]

I don't understand. Nothing new there. But.. Are you suggesting the indicator is fake. That it does not accurately indicate the voltage?

If so, that claim is very false. Mine works quite well and is accurate enough for this application.
It simply and quickly conveys voltage of the electrical system of the bike.
Red or yellow at stop/idle is no big deal. Green when running is what I want to see. Flashing red anytime is bad.

[RandyO]

I don't understand. Nothing new there. But.. Are you suggesting the indicator is fake. That it does not accurately indicate the voltage?.

how do you get that out of Rich's post ? he just stated that he has one and that the color of the LED changes as the voltage changes, sounds like is functions like it's suppose to, to me.

[SVRACER01]

lithium batteries dont like the cold (read: they dont really work) theres actually a procedure to use them in the cold. i recently had Ballistic on the phone and they told me thats why they dont make snowmobile batteries. it may actually take several attempts to get the bike to start because each time the battery gets warmer and generates more power. the opposite of a typical battery

[nhbubba]

just an LED pocking out...

Emphasis added to highlight my confusion. Complete sentences and punctuation might help clear up the message. Or maybe it's just in some old, crotchety man code.

[jeantarrou]

Thanks for the additional info guys, I have an Powerlet accessory "fuse-box" on the bike that I brought over from my RC51. As I'm clearly not 100% up to speed with the electrical side of bikes I'm crossing my fingers I can figure out how to install the heated grips in-line with the fuse box, I am planning on just mimicking the wiring for the coax outlets?. Also, like Stromper recommended, I plan on tapping into the license plate bulb for power...

Also, I had a 8 cell lithium battery on my RC51, I'm pretty familiar with their cold weather habits and never actually had a problem once I was made aware, counter-intuitive as it may be, that drawing power from the battery does in fact warm it up and aid in startup. Worst incident was (temps in the low 30's, about my limit...) waiting about a minute with the high beams on, thumbing the starter and off I went. My question regarding the lithium batteries was more a question of their ability to run accessories, is it any different than conventional batteries?

[ZX-12R]

My question regarding the lithium batteries was more a question of their ability to run accessories, is it any different than conventional batteries?

From the perspective of the accessories, there is no difference. Ideally everything will be running off of the alternator while the bike is running but at idle or very low RPMs this may not be the case. Where you need to be careful with lithium batteries is with the way manufacturers list the capacity. Due to the nature of lithium chemistries, it's possible for a battery with significantly less overall capacity to still provide excellent starting capabilities. These batteries rely on the charging system picking up the electrical demands of the bike after it has started and to not have a long term drain applied to them. Because of their discharge profile, lithium batteries give very little warning of running out of juice. They provide a relatively constant voltage with a load throughout the majority of their discharge cycle and then fall off a cliff when they are out. Lead-acid chemistry batteries have a voltage drop change while discharging which you can usually tell by lights dimming and reduced starting power. If you dig through the datasheets for the battery you can usually get through all the marketing BS on lithium batteries and figure out how much capacity they actually have. You need to find the Amp-hour or Watt-hour rating to get a true idea of the battery capacity.

[Stromper]

The guts of the signal dynamic volt indicator are inside the cowling

a Single small LED is installed anywhere with about a 3/16 hole and a snap in bezel

This LED is bright enough to be seen anytime and happily serves the purpose of, is my battery charging?*

I have had it for about 6 years and it is still fine so I recommend it


When I had Halogen brake lights and Gerbing jacket at idle at a stop light , the LED would go red. Then pull away in about a block it cycled up to
happy green.

I now have good Walmart LED 1157 and the green remains at idle... nice to know

I have a dl1000 Vstrom that is notorious for the rotor magnets coming loose, they the group together , then generation drops off

[whynot]

PSST Make sure your on the cold side of ignition. I run a relay triggered by the license plate light as a cold line under the seat

I don't really understand what you're saying here about the cold side of the ignition. My First Gear heated gear runs off a battery harness. Should I wire it another way?

[RandyO]

I don't really understand what you're saying here about the cold side of the ignition. My First Gear heated gear runs off a battery harness. Should I wire it another way?

you unplug your gear when your not on the bike, it won't drain the battery, if you connect the LED that way, it stays on while your not on the bike and will slowly drain the battery, you need to connect a voltage monitor or meter to a switched source so that it is only energized when the bike is running

[whynot]

you unplug your gear when your not on the bike, it won't drain the battery, if you connect the LED that way, it stays on while your not on the bike and will slowly drain the battery, you need to connect a voltage monitor or meter to a switched source so that it is only energized when the bike is running

Ah OK, thanks. I've ordered one of the Signal Dynamics voltage monitors, will probably use it on one of the vintage Brit bikes.

(On the heated gear, if I get into some slow traffic or longish lights, I turn it off while idling.)