If in doubt, UPshift

[Ken C]

Chuck Boucher missed a downshift and landed in the hospital. Learn from his mistake: Riding in the Zone: If in doubt, UPshift!/

[Jewcati]

Ken, would a slipper clutch prevent this?

[Paul_E_D]

I'm not Ken, but in most cases, yes.

[Ken C]

A slipper clutch can do wonders, but there may be a point when the slipper may not re-engage the power slowly enough, which will still cause the rear to slide, just not nearly as much. This would depend on the actual clutch and how sensitive it's adjusted.

[Paul_E_D]

Agreed, letting the revs drop to idle at a high rate of speed, then letting the clutch out will always be a bit unpredictable. The key is not to try to recover too quickly. Keep the clutch in, scrub some speed, and get your bearings before letting the clutch out verry slowly.

[nt650hawk]

Same thing bit me in T6 last year. false Neutral. I was in the motions to upshift then it grabbed and chucked me down.

This last race weekend this same thing happened as I was beginning to pass an AM. Knowing I had the room and the knowledge of what to do. I clutched in and stood the bike up immediately,got the upshift and then continued only to watch the Stoker passed underneath me.


Also thinking of Marquez. he grabbed an inadvertent upshift mid turn and it highsided him.

[Karate.Snoopy]

Doesn't MSF have the riders Up Shift while cornering?

[Paul_E_D]

Yeah, lol, but they are not on the edge of the tire at 60 degrees of lean.

[The Snowman]

Doesn't MSF have the riders Up Shift while cornering?

This wasn't a street incident though. I was downshifting to get some engine braking to aid the actual braking that I was doing, in order to slow down for a lower-speed corner than the speed that I was running at. I was also downshifting to be in the proper gear to drive out of that corner.

The point of the article wasn't just about the upshift, but that we all make split-second decisions on the street and on the track. I simply made the wrong one, which cost me dearly. I shifted down, which made the rear wheel spin much slower than the engine was. It skipped and lost traction. Would a slipper have helped? Possibly. Would blipping have helped? Again, possibly..

[SRTie4k]

Shouldn't this have been posted in the track section? There aren't many times when downshifting in a corner on the street will cause you to lose traction, and if you are getting to that point you're riding way too hard in the first place.

[nhbubba]

There aren't many times when downshifting in a corner on the street will cause you to lose traction, and if you are getting to that point you're riding way too hard in the first place.

YMMV. I've nearly done this to myself on an Interstate exit ramp.

[SVRACER01]

youve been fighting this neutral thing for a while now chuck. had no idea that you tossed yourself though. heal up quick.

i get a false N on the KTM on occasion, but only while upshifting (reg shift). never gotten one downshifting. id ask if youve considered going back to reg shift but you were getting them going over the hill while upshifting too so i dont know what to tell you

[nt650hawk]

this was on his Race SV not the Ape.

[SVRACER01]

ahhhh...i see.

[ZX-12R]

Shouldn't this have been posted in the track section? There aren't many times when downshifting in a corner on the street will cause you to lose traction, and if you are getting to that point you're riding way too hard in the first place.

On the street, you are far more likely to be in a less than ideal traction environment vs. the nearly ideal environment at the track. It could be rain, oil, rocks, vegetation, or any other road obstacle you can think of. With less traction it takes less engine braking to cause problems.

[The Snowman]

It's a general topic, because it can happen anywhere. It's just more common on the track, because you have less time to do things. At certain times, you're doing 3 things at once. In this particular case, I roll off the throttle, brake, and downshift almost at the same time.

It's meant to inform that if this does happen, that upshifting is the best course of action. The latter portion of the blog is meant to remind riders that quick decisions may be required at any time while on the street or the track and that further training is one way of educating uninformed riders.

[SRTie4k]

On the street, you are far more likely to be in a less than ideal traction environment vs. the nearly ideal environment at the track. It could be rain, oil, rocks, vegetation, or any other road obstacle you can think of. With less traction it takes less engine braking to cause problems.

You are also far less likely to be dragging knee (if you have any sense of self preservation of course). Loosing traction is not nearly as big a deal when you're not leaned over at 60 degrees.

[nhbubba]

By drag knee, I assume you mean climb off the bike. Climbing off the bike means you don't have to lean the bike over as far. Loosing traction with the bike more upright is less of a problem. The problem is when you loose traction with the bike leaned over, not the rider.

So "dragging knee" is actually safer.

[butcher bergs]

It could be rain, oil, rocks, vegetation...

All of these things can be found on a track.

Rain? Definitely
Oil? Yep
Rocks? Check!
Vegetation? You bet!


At least those things are at least manageable. It's the animals that are hard to predict...




EDIT: This is not directed toward anyone in particular but it's foolish to think any given track always offers a pristine environment to ride in.

[The Snowman]

At least those things are at least manageable. It's the animals that are hard to predict...

Correct. Ask Lorna about Fluffy.

[cdovego]

I avoided a wild horse on track in CA once, goats and sheep were common.

[SRTie4k]

By drag knee, I assume you mean climb off the bike. Climbing off the bike means you don't have to lean the bike over as far. Loosing traction with the bike more upright is less of a problem. The problem is when you loose traction with the bike leaned over, not the rider.

So "dragging knee" is actually safer.

That's not what I mean, and you know it. By "dragging knee" I mean riding way beyond what what is safe on the street in this instance. I'd be kind of surprised if this topic applied to street riding even half as much as it applied to the track.

[The Snowman]

That's not what I mean, and you know it. By "dragging knee" I mean riding way beyond what what is safe on the street in this instance. I'd be kind of surprised if this topic applied to street riding even half as much as it applied to the track.

There are 2 different topics to this blog entry, as mentioned above:
1) False neutrals (can happen anywhere)
2) Split-second decisions and how additional training and experience may help you to avoid the consequences of bad decisisions, like what happened to me.

[ZX-12R]

Loosing traction is not nearly as big a deal when you're not leaned over at 60 degrees.

That's arguable since you don't have to deal with crossing into oncoming traffic on the track.

All of these things can be found on a track.

And no one said they couldn't, but the big difference though is there's an attempt to manage the hazards on a track where most issues go uncorrected on the street.

[nhbubba]

That's not what I mean, and you know it.

I know what you mean. You mean slow down you scofflaw. Get off my lawn. Speeding is dangerous, mmmmmkaay. My response to that is: Get real.

I promise everyone here has taken a corner faster than they probably should have on the street. And using proper body position makes that kind of situation more safe, not less. Maybe that means knee down for your machine and your situation. Maybe it means leaving your ass planted and just shifting the shoulders in a little. I've watched a guy with his knee planted on a 900lbs gold wing cutting rock solid 20' circles over and over again at less than 30 MPH in a parking lot. Shocking what some solid body position can do.

There seems to be this perception that only racers benefit from some of these techniques. And I disagree with that.

Body position is a game changer for the street.