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Downhill corners.

  1. #1
    I'm mildly retarded. JeffL's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    I'm not nearly as apprehensive this year as I was last year, but was just curious; is there something as far as physics go that make a downhill corner more "difficult", or is it mostly just a mental hurdle? I dont know what would make it different, I just know last year, on fairly heavy grades a tight corner presented much more of a pucker factor to me than that same corner running it uphill. Am I just a newbie, and need more seat time, or is there actually something to them that makes them different?

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  2. #2
    Lifer mycirus's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    I dont like them either. I like my own momentum......

    Bruce

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  3. #3
    I'm mildly retarded. JeffL's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    Originally posted by mycirus
    I dont like them either. I like my own momentum......

    Bruce
    Yeah, the "feeling" of them makes me uneasy more than anything. I like the feeling of the throttle pulling me through the corner, moreso than the "dead" feeling of neutral throttle through a downhill.

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  4. #4
    Lifer union's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    I dont care for the downhills either. I like the feeling that if I let off the throttle the bike will slow instead of either picking up a bit or feeling like the front could wash out on me.

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    James

  5. #5
    Lifer LuvDog's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    I think a part of the problem with downhill corners is that you are unweighting the back wheel even more than normal.

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  6. #6
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    they used to bother me, but after going over the backside of Wayah Bald on Wayah Road, and over Big Stone Gap leading down into Lynch, KY they don't bother anymore

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    RandyO
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  7. #7
    Lifer a13x's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    Your front end is even more weighted than normal. Turn 9 at Loudon.

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  8. #8
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    They give the sensation of the bike falling away from the line you want. My wife was always petrified by them.

    I *think* the reason is that most people don't set the proper entry speed that allows you to accelerate through the turn. That is the proper technique, and will make the bike feel more planted and tracking where you want it to go.

    Rolling off to slow in a corner is not good technique. Try slowing with your brakes before the turn and accelerate all the way through. Basic MSF lesson, but always a good one to remember. It works for every corner: slow look press roll.

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  9. #9
    I'm mildly retarded. JeffL's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    I'm always aware of trying to keep throttle, whether its a "maintaining" throttle, or an "accelerating" throttle while taking a corner, to keep the rear wheel loaded. I guess its really just a matter of getting experienced enough with roads you ride every day, or getting the experience to be able to judge a corner pre turn-in, as to what your entry speed should be, to allow you to accelerate through it.

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  10. #10
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    Downhill corners.

    i have a crazy steep sharp right hand downhill in my down out in the woods on the way to my friends house. it scares me in a car lol. reminds me so much of the cork screw at laguna (from what ive seen on tv)

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  11. #11

    Downhill corners.

    this may be incorrect, but I seem to give (unconsciously, I might add) a little (VERY little) rear brake and keep on the throttle. I learned this on trails (mind you, I'm self-taught with woods riding, so take this as you should...). Front brake won't work, as it will just weight the front more. Don't ask me how I know (did I mention I was self-taught in the woods?)

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  12. #12
    Lifer
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    Downhill corners.

    I hate turn 9. I think it feels a little better when i drag the brakes a little before entering, let's me go through the turn with more gas instead of barely being on it.

    It always feels like the front isn't following the ground as tight as it should, seems like it would be easy to wash it.

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    It's all water under the bridge, and we do enter the next round-robin. Am I wrong?

  13. #13
    I kick hippies...and Kham Nikon's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    It's just easier to slow down on an uphill turn. Going down you have only your braking power but uphill, you just ease your wrist a bit too and you'll slow significantly quicker. That and the weight being on the front makes it too easy too lock that rear up with the pucker kicking in.


    I've always been apprehensive on downhill turns - specifically route 17 downhill - either way....

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  14. #14
    Lifer
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    Downhill corners.

    You can indeed stop faster on an uphill then a downhill, it's physics and that's that.

    I do the same thing San Felice does on the trails when I ride my mountain bike. I generally brake in a straight line when going down hill and then just let gravity pull me through the corner but if I do need to slow down I would tend to use the rear brake. I've washed out the front a lot in the past in the woods.

    But on the street on a sportbike fuhgeddabout it... get it done in a straight line and then get on the gas just like a flat turn, it's just a question of judging entry speed, it's not a race, too slow is better then too fast. The piggish weight of sportbikes becomes really apparent if you ride anything like Mt. Washington.. going through those 20% downhill grades is very unpleasant on the sportbike compared to something lighter.

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  15. #15
    Lifer a13x's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    Originally posted by hessogood
    I hate turn 9.
    Heh. I on the other hand have always gone well / liked T9. Nine is also one of the few turns at Loudon that you don't have to worry about getting a good drive out of, since you flow directly into 10.

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  16. #16
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    Originally posted by JeffL
    I'm always aware of trying to keep throttle, whether its a "maintaining" throttle, or an "accelerating" throttle while taking a corner, to keep the rear wheel loaded. I guess its really just a matter of getting experienced enough with roads you ride every day, or getting the experience to be able to judge a corner pre turn-in, as to what your entry speed should be, to allow you to accelerate through it.
    Since you live so damn close to it, you should be practicing every day on RT. 2 Westbound into NY over the Taconic Trails. There are several sweeping downhill corners once you enter NY that you can take at license revoking speed! It can be a bit unnerving especially when your toe starts to drag on the ground because you are so low but you quickly get over it and your starfish relaxes. I suggest you get practicing!

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  17. #17
    Lost in my own mind... 01YZF6's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    Originally posted by Nikon

    I've always been apprehensive on downhill turns - specifically route 17 downhill - either way....
    I will 100 % agree with that ! was edgy on my 1st run down ( w to e) last year.


    for me it is all in the gearing, on a 45 mph downhill turn I am in 2nd with the throttle cracked 1/4 the way. if you roll off too fast then the weight shifts forward and the the nose will dip and the ass end will become light. with the throttle barely cracked I can edge itout halfway through the turn and shift on the exit as it approaches..

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  18. #18
    I'm mildly retarded. JeffL's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    I've never actually taken 2 all the way into NY. Thats coming soon, once I get all the "bugs" worked out of the bike and I have no qualms about riding 150 miles in one direction from home.

    If anyone knows it, one corner that springs to mind is Rt. 78 headed west out of the center of Warwick, MA. You take 2 mildly tight decreasing radius downhill corners with a steep hill on your left, and a guardrail and drop-off on your right.

    My next favorite things after downhills are tar snakes and large cracks in the road that run parallel with the lane, the ones that like to suck your tire in.

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  19. #19
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    Originally posted by JeffL
    I've never actually taken 2 all the way into NY. Thats coming soon, once I get all the "bugs" worked out of the bike and I have no qualms about riding 150 miles in one direction from home.
    Don't be such a wuss ! Bernardston is only 50 miles away! From Ipswich i'm about 160 miles away!

    P.S. I forgot you moved away from Greenfield.

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  20. #20
    I'm mildly retarded. JeffL's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    I've lived in Bernardston nearly my whole life, its right NEXT to Greenfield.

    Yeah, 50 miles, but why ride to the border and turn around, theres all those beautiful mountains if I keep heading west..... I'm just waiting till I can confidently ride out and spend a day in NY before attempting it. My 95 FZR600 is a far cry reliability wise from a 200x+ bike. lol

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  21. #21
    Lifer
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    Downhill corners.

    Yah that section on Rt. 2 is sweet.

    I'm going out to upstate NY in 2 weeks.

    NOT the place to be trying to set a new personal speed record though, it's deserted and dangerous.

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  22. #22
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    Downhill corners.

    Originally posted by sanfelice
    this may be incorrect, but I seem to give (unconsciously, I might add) a little (VERY little) rear brake and keep on the throttle. I learned this on trails (mind you, I'm self-taught with woods riding, so take this as you should...). Front brake won't work, as it will just weight the front more. Don't ask me how I know (did I mention I was self-taught in the woods?)
    i dont really see what using rear break AND throttle at the same time would do. but witht he clutch in and revs up it makes snse because that way the spinning of the crank and internal parts give you more gyroscopic affect and gives you a more balanced feeling.

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  23. #23
    NESR ruined my life. chr|s sedition's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    rt 66 going the downhill way....lots of fun...untill the Ryder Rental truck shows up in the middle of lane....


    who was with me that day? Mark? Kham? Manny? Hberry?

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  24. #24
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    Oh god! Please don't squeeze the clutch in a downhill corner! can you say "run off the road"?

    dragging the rear brake while on the throttle will slow you without weighting the front so much and allow you to tighten your line. it's a good technique IMO. It just needs to be done with a light touch. if there's any sand or such, it gets dicey.

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  25. #25
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Downhill corners.

    Originally posted by a13x
    Heh. I on the other hand have always gone well / liked T9. Nine is also one of the few turns at Loudon that you don't have to worry about getting a good drive out of, since you flow directly into 10.
    I beg to differ! It's one place where you can gain a huge advantage over your competitors.

    Jay, dragging the brakes at/before the entrance is definitely a good technique as you need to get in touch with the front early in the turn. As you get faster in 8 this gets pretty wild. My bike gets all outta shape as soon as I touch the brakes and downshift.

    Get right on the gas after the first apex cone and feed it on gently until the turn in point for ten. It will actually HELP you track back to the inside curbing at the second apex, especially if you can relax your arms.

    In fact, giving it some good stick before rolling off for ten can help the bike change directions quickly with less effort. It kinda wants to highside as you roll off and countersteer at the same time.

    I have had the gas on enough to step out the rear just before ten. approach this technique with caution, as it's not a place you want to crash.

    Same thing in 11, which is another place most people don't feel comfy on the gas.

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