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Electronic/Battery Guru's question

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Electronic/Battery Guru's question


    as a few here may know, I am slowly preping my V-strom, for an extreme arctic ride, as part of the prep, I have installed an auxiliary charging system that I am running independently from the bike's stock system. In making room for a second battery, I modified my exhaust from dual to 2 into 1, then chose an Optima DS46B24R yellow top, as my auxiliary battery

    But, I'm finding it doesn't fit the way I would like, it's a little tall, and would require complicated recessing into my tail

    SO, I am again looking at multiple smaller batteries, I would like to end up with more than 800 CCA. easily attainable with a couple gel snowmobile batteries, I am leary of lithium batteries in such cold. however would paring a gel battery with a lithium battery be advisable ?

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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    The only issue I can think of is charging if needed? Although your bikes charging system should handle both! 12volts is 12 volts!

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    The only issue I can think of is charging if needed? Although your bikes charging system should handle both! 12volts is 12 volts!
    they will be independent of they bikes charging system, connected to the 75 amp auxialiary alternator



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    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    From a brief Google search, a lot of results say not to wire lead acid and lithium batteries in parallel.

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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    they will be independent of they bikes charging system, connected to the 75 amp auxialiary alternator


    Nice clean system looks good.

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    From a brief Google search, a lot of results say not to wire lead acid and lithium batteries in parallel.
    but are not you doing that, when you jump start one with the other

    I have read mixed, from it's an explosive hazard, to no problem, it solved my storage problem, but everything I have found so far, is with regard to solar storage, or RV, nothing automotive

    My plan is for occasional engine starting and occasional use with engine off, with engine on, the system will power my auxillary lighiing, heated gear & electronic accessories. the only connection this will have with my bike, is a common ground, and one relay to light up the auxilliary system's volt meter & start switched circuits, when the bike starts

    I will also have a "jump start" switch, so that I can jump start myself if necessary

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    Nice clean system looks good.
    One off prototype, a fellow V-stromer did the R&D when his stock charging system failed, when he sold the bike, he returned it to stock, and sold the setup to me, only machining I had to do, was extend the 3 stator bolt holes thru the side cover, to mount a bearing on the outside, and source 3 bolts from Mcmaster Carr, the rest was in the package I got from him. Crankshaft extension, bearing, pulleys, belt, belt guard, alternator, mount, and wire harness to battery. Besides machining several crakshaft extensions before settling on this one, he went thru several alternators, and pulley ratios, every alternator he tried, burnt itself out , till he found this one made for dragsters /high rpm What make sit look so clean, is the belt guard, trimmed from a belt guard on a Suzuki generator, kinda makes it look like it was a Suzuki option

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    Lifer
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Wrap heated grip warmers around a couple lithiums? I don't know if that's inventive or ridiculous (both?), but it's an idea. I'd be really interested in making lithiums work, not just for the packaging size, but weight.

    Lithium batteries warm up under load, so counter intuitively, drawing from them when weak from the cold heats them up and increases their effective CCA. But I guess I've never really considered if that's effective when it's below 0. Perhaps some insulating wrapping to keep the ambient air from cooling them?

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    More than likely I will just use gel batteries in parallel, what I don't know, is how to calculate CCA with multiple batteries, do you just add em up, or is it a formula like resistors in parallel

    my thinking, with a gel & lithium is that the gel would provide the initial amperage, while the lithium is "warming up" then the lithium would take over as the gel tapers off

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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Everything I've read says that leaving lights on for 5 min is enough to warm a lithium battery enough to crank in below freezing temps. I actually just got a Antigravity lithium battery myself, and it struggles to crank my 1290 at 45F after sitting for a night in the garage, so I'm not entirely convinced yet.

    What exactly is the use case for this build? Motocamping in winter?

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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    What exactly is the use case for this build? Motocamping in winter?
    I'm guessing his Kanc ride on February 7th? Or the occasional sprint to my house during snow storms to show off. Maybe even come torment me when I'm ice fishing?

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post

    What exactly is the use case for this build? Motocamping in winter?
    as I said in the initial post, "AN EXTREME ARCTIC RIDE" I dunno, -40f, -65f, it might only go to -20, Deadhorse AK, in winter. I wanna be prepared, I will be running Rotella 0w40, it will be cold, and dark

    however in summer, I will also have an inverter, and I might wanna plug in a toaster over

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    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    as I said in the initial post, "AN EXTREME ARCTIC RIDE" I dunno, -40f, -65f, it might only go to -20, Deadhorse AK, in winter. I wanna be prepared, I will be running Rotella 0w40, it will be cold, and dark
    As beet would say, "ta fuk wit dat"

    As in, what the fuck is up with that?

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    I'm guessing his Kanc ride on February 7th? Or the occasional sprint to my house during snow storms to show off. Maybe even come torment me when I'm ice fishing?
    ya, that too Electronic/Battery Guru's question-pond-jpg

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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    If you wire two matching batteries in series: Voltage doubles, Ah rating is the same as one of the batts.

    If you wire two matching batteries in parallel: Voltage stays the same, Ah rating doubles.

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    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    It was about 36 degrees today in Waltham and I saw a guy on a first-gen MultiStrada on my street. He had a decent jacket but was clearly wearing dress shoes and socks...

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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    If you wire two matching batteries in series: Voltage doubles, Ah rating is the same as one of the batts.

    If you wire two matching batteries in parallel: Voltage stays the same, Ah rating doubles.
    yes, but how does doubling the Ah, relate to CCA ? is what I wanna know

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    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Amps is amps. If each batt can throw 400A for a min at 12v, and you pair them up, you've got 800A for a min at 12v now.

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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Now, that said, if the goal is an emergency jumper in the cold, relying on amps alone is likely not the solution. A small 6V or 12v batt in line with the starter will get the starter spinning faster than trying to out AMP it. That'd be my goto for cold weather, spin that thing up with some REVs.

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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    yes, but how does doubling the Ah, relate to CCA ? is what I wanna know
    Ah and cca dont relate. Ah is the amount of storage and cca is the amount it can dump in say 30 seconds. Leisure batteries have massive ah but nearly zero cca. Car batteries have massive cca but very little ah. Then there are the dual one usually for boats that have a blend of the two.

    I wouldnt go mixing different types of batteries if i could help it, especially for the cold that you want. Batteries get all crazy once the temps drop and having to worry about differing sets would be a hassle. I would want both sets to function 100% if the one set died. Even though you are seperating the systems you may find one dies so you need to use the other full time. At the very least they should be completely interchangable without much faffing about.

    My concern for you is more the cold to start with. Can the batteries be insulated and heated somehow? Will the bike be stored outside at -20 and can you take the batteries inside with you? Do you have a way of warming the engine before hand?

    Im thinking agm with insulation/heating is the way to go. Lithium isnt great in the cold as you know, you may find its cold for them to ever work properly.

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    Lifer
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    If you're starting a bike in a scenario where you expect CCA to be at it's minimum, like starting out on a -30F morning, isn't this getting too cold to start the bike at all? Won't you eventually either need a block heater or a fire under crankcase? Because if so, does that potentially nullify the importance of worrying about CCA?

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    If you're starting a bike in a scenario where you expect CCA to be at it's minimum, like starting out on a -30F morning, isn't this getting too cold to start the bike at all? Won't you eventually either need a block heater or a fire under crankcase? Because if so, does that potentially nullify the importance of worrying about CCA?
    that is why Shell makes Rotella 0w40, fwiw, I have gone on rides on my old SV650, down to -25, with 10w40, stored in cold, that was about the limits, if it didn't start right up, the first revolution, it wouldn't have made it to the next. When I an on road, I cannot count on the ability to plug in a block heater, and will likely add one, I'm liking Kurlon's idea, of adding a 6v in series, as a booster, max voltage of 18 should speed it up, without frying

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Now, that said, if the goal is an emergency jumper in the cold, relying on amps alone is likely not the solution. A small 6V or 12v batt in line with the starter will get the starter spinning faster than trying to out AMP it. That'd be my goto for cold weather, spin that thing up with some REVs.
    if I was to add a 6v booster battery in series, would I wire it between my 12v bank, and ground, or between the 12v battery bank, and the starter, the second, being the easier way, to wire

    I shoulda thought of boosting the voltage, I used to run a 6v horn to get more volume

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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    I would take the input side of the starter solenoid and connect to to the positive terminal of the 6V battery, then connect the negative terminal of the 6V battery to the positive terminal of the 12V battery. In that arrangement, everything still uses the same ground and only the starter would see the full 18V potential when the solenoid is closed.

    Depending on accessibility, you could also go
    +12->solenoid in
    solenoid out ->starter in
    starter out -> -6V terminal
    +6V terminal -> chassis GND.

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    Last edited by ZX-12R; 12-16-20 at 02:38 PM.
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    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic/Battery Guru's question

    Yeah, all the setups I've seen doing this put the 6v booster in series in the line between the solenoid and starter. I've also seen some people using 16v LiFePO4 batts as their main batt with the same idea, a bit more voltage for easier starts, but low enough to not piss off / fry the ECU/etc, and able to be charged with an adjusted reg/rect.

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