New EPA Regulations

[Viper897]

Not sure if this has been posted here yet. If it has could a mod please take it down.

Proposed New EPA Regulations Could End Production-Based Racing In The U.S., By Outlawing Modification Of Street Vehicles For Racetrack Use

There's also a white house petition as well

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0

[breakdirt916]

yaay!

we'll just race on DA STREEEETS!!!

[Viper897]

Ill try to get some of the other articles on this, basically if this passes it will cost $37,500 each time you fire up your non compliant race vehicle.

Last article I read goes so far as to say that when World Superbike comes to town they would be fined for racing.

What has stuff come to.

[nhbubba]

The counterargument : No, the EPA Didn't Just Outlaw Your Race Car

[aldend123]

You might be interested in the links below. There's more to this story. If I understand correctly, it's not nearly as gloom and doom as the roadracingworld article painted it. Probably still worth pushing back against though.

No, the EPA Didn't Just Outlaw Your Race Car
No, the EPA isn’t making it illegal to turn an old car into a race car | Ars Technica
Is The EPA Trying To Ban The Conversion Of Street Cars Into Race Cars?
The EPA's Crackdown On Race Cars, Explained

[Kurlon]

Most of the people saying "Don't worry, we'll be fine" are basing it around the idea that EPA is claiming that they're not going to enforce anything on competition vehicles yet. They just want to toss the regulation blanket over competition vehicles for now but not actually do anything... yet.

Run, run screaming and run loud to stop this stupidity.

[butcher bergs]

First thought that came to my mind was the time when the elimination of leaded products was attempted.

[Imbeek]

One of the problems with this country is that there are a lot of people with careers that depend on finding new issues to pass restrictions about.

FFS it's the land of the free.

[aldend123]

Most of the people saying "Don't worry, we'll be fine" are basing it around the idea that EPA is claiming that they're not going to enforce anything on competition vehicles yet. They just want to toss the regulation blanket over competition vehicles for now but not actually do anything... yet.

Run, run screaming and run loud to stop this stupidity.

That is an important distinction that gets lost in the two views most articles are presenting. Either, "we're all gonna die" or "everything's fine". Neither seems accurate. Is a better way to describe the effects of this rule as impacting the sale of items that currently are "For OffRoad Use Only"? Hence why SEMA's so worried. Maybe the EPA won't have the money to go knocking on doors of amateur racers, but they might be able to limit the sale of products so everyone is forced to go DIY.

[nhbubba]

On the other hand. Somedays it sucks being the child of hippies.

I read a persuasive argument the other day that hacking the emissions controls off a vehicle to race should be illegal. That there is more than enough performance, even with the controls in place, to have a fun race vehicle. And that the very essence of "stock" and "street sport" type classes is ruined by many of the mods this sort of thing would effect, were it real and were it actually enforced.

I really need to get out for brap to reconcile this.

[jasnmar]

They'll fix this enormous emissions problem the same way they fixed the enormous fuel can problem. Those are soo much better now than before the EPA.

[csmutty]

They'll fix this enormous emissions problem the same way they fixed the enormous fuel can problem. Those are soo much better now than before the EPA.

My dad got one of those for Christmas this year.

I modified that with a drill stat.

[curiouser]

One of the problems with this country is that there are a lot of people with careers that depend on finding new issues to pass restrictions about.

Exactly. And most of these restrictions don't have a sunset provision, so they just accumulate ad inifnitum.

I never understood the push to restrict these kinds of vehicles. Without any sort of evidence, I'll submit that if you instantly crushed all of the recreational track vehicles in the US, there would be no measurable improvement to air quality or climate. You're not going to save the planet by messing with the tiniest percentage of emitters. Same goes with EPA and Euro regs on these super exotic, boutique car manufacturers due to scale. No one measurably benefits by making a $200k+ limited production car conform to the same emissions standards as mass produced cars that sell millions of units per year.

[RandyO]

I deal with selectively enforced EPA and CoE regulations every day

[breakdirt916]

^^

...And??

[Imbeek]

Come to think of it, why stop there?

What percent of racing pollution will be reduced if this is passed and enforced? Pfft 15%? That leaves 85% of the problem!

Motor racing, in general, pollutes, even if factory emissions controls are left in place. The Cro-Magnon-mentality cock-size contests should be banned entirely; in addition to the fumes, they create noise pollution, result in tons of rubber waste, and burden the emergency health system when the damn fools wreck. They scare or even kill innocent wildlife, too...All for NO discernible benefit to those who don't race, spectate, or profit from it. And who cares about those who do? How important will that first place medallion look when it's underwater after the state of Florida floods due to global warming as a result of these childish contests?

It's not like there aren't suitable alternative activities available. There are plenty of hiking trails open for recreation. (No unleashed dogs or dirtbikes or bicycles, and WALK on the marked trail, please. And for goodness sake, don't whistle too loud or crank the earbuds to a level that might disturb other hikers. And no bright colors. Except in hunting season, then it's against the law not to. But no guns unless you have permits and a deer tag. In season. Buck only. Damn hunters!)

<whistles past the cemetery>

[Viper897]

Well I see I started a good discussion and may have added to the winter entertainment a bit.

They, the epa, have had the well were just not going to enforce thing attitude for a long time. They are probably trying to enforce this stuff since that global climate summit, which my attitude is let the rest of the world catch up before you destroy my fun having.

Yes probably a bad attitude but it seems worthless to really restrict a few because others in the world have a bigger problem that goes well mostly unchecked, and I think we all know about the smog brick that was made due to a certain country's smog problem.

Just a thought.

[Stromper]

EPA tree huggers hate you gear heads period and your stupid jobs

The only group they hate more is

Your Grand children

Vote them all back home

[RandyO]

^^

...And??

guaranteed, if you stick a shovel in the ground, you have violated a regulation written somewhere

98% of land use violations that are enforced are a clash of life styles between neighbors and nothing to do with a land use violation

don't like a neighbor, turn em in to the EPA or Army Corps of Engineers

but, its a civil violation, so unlike criminal acts where you are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent

[nhbubba]

...let the rest of the world catch up before you destroy my fun having.

Problem is the rest of the world is rolling around in oxen carts dodging commercial vehicles powered by 2.2L turbo diesels or econoboxes powered by really, actually sustainable ethanol or some other alternative. Meanwhile our parents ran huge V8's powered by leaded gasoline with no emissions controls whatsoever. And now we're running around in 5.7L V8 gas trucks.. as personal commuter vehicles. Know what I mean?

Regardless of what you think of them today, the EPA has had a real impact on air and water quality in the US.


I'll go pour 2-stroke premix on myself now.

[RandyO]

I would ask, what does Section 106 compliance have to do with water or air quality, absolutely nothing, yet when I apply for CoE permits I have to file documents showing that I have done a search

[Viper897]

On the other hand. Somedays it sucks being the child of hippies.

I read a persuasive argument the other day that hacking the emissions controls off a vehicle to race should be illegal. That there is more than enough performance, even with the controls in place, to have a fun race vehicle. And that the very essence of "stock" and "street sport" type classes is ruined by many of the mods this sort of thing would effect, were it real and were it actually enforced.

I really need to get out for brap to reconcile this.

Why in the world would I want to race a stock motorcycle? Sounds boring to me. Not to mention if something like this does go into effect, having known what adding performance mods is like, makes me not want a stock bike.

[nhbubba]

Why in the world would I want to race a stock motorcycle? Sounds boring to me.

I'm sorry to hear that. I feel differently. Especially with regards to power, intake and exhaust modifications. Gimmie a well sprung bike that makes exactly as much power as the guy gridded next to me any day. That'd be huge fun.

On the upside, sounds like you should fit in just fine in LWGP. Mod to your hearts content.

[Petorius]

My first thought was that enforcement of this would actually be good for production class racing. But I doubt that's really the case. Less money flowing into the aftermarket means less money flowing into racing organizations and vendors, and the sport is expensive enough WITH the subsidization provided by fools who think more motor = more fun.

[SRTie4k]

Motorsports is such a small percentage of the vehicles in use in the US it almost seems like the EPA is picking on the little guy because they need SOME target to appease the overlords. I'd rather see the EPA crack down on the glut of motorcycle owners replacing their exhausts/emissions equipment with straight pipes. At least they pose a more direct and obvious annoyance.