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Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

  1. #26
    < This jacket for sale :) Vix's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Funny...I was going to start a thread on this myself...

    Several months ago started having problems with my bike stalling, including while moving in traffic which was disconcerting. Some minor adjustments, ran a little better but still noticeably different.

    Problems off and on, mostly running rough but then again had problems with stalling while in motion. SilverGhost (my trusted technician) put in the Lucas which did help with the stalling although doesn’t smell so great. Started filling up with non-ethanol fuel before the weekend, have filled up twice and it’s making a big difference.

    Been to both the CoCo (I think that’s what it is) in Mallets Bay and also the GoGo gas in Colchester (south of the Interstate from Costco on the left side after McDonalds). The non-ethanol stations are getting my business from now on.

    Also, for what it's worth, my car has experienced a greater than 10% decrease in fuel economy with the addition of 10% ethanol. Not sure what the point is if it's worse than just an expensive filler...

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  2. #27
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    If there's anyone here in this thread that I trust knows what they're talking about, it's TLRMan.

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  3. #28
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by markbvt View Post
    I've been noticing lately that gas doesn't even smell like gas anymore -- smells kind of skunky -- and my Triumph (air-cooled twin) has been running worse, especially when cold, for the past year or so. I suspect strongly that the shitty gas they're selling us these days is responsible.

    Next time I have to fill up I'm going to a station up in Mallett's Bay that has non-ethanol gas. But that's the only station I know of that has it.

    Let's start a list here of stations that carry the real stuff. Include the state, town, brand of gas, and specific location.

    --mark

    VERMONT
    Burlington area
    Mallett's Bay, across from Mazza's General Store, not sure of the brand but I'll update later.
    Colchester, GoGo Gas.
    This has been killing my carborated bike as well. The best I can say is ( assuming the eth is the problem ) is to clean your jets and then make sure you always start the bike and let it run often. It seems to be working for me. I drained the bowls last winter and that didn't help as I believe the pilot jets are so small that the gas just stays in them. The first thing I did was to use an expensive injector clean, that didn't work. When I took the jets out the pilots were still fully clogged and the mains almost fully clogged.

    I thought my fuel injected bike was ok but now that I think of it, it has started behaving funny off throttle.

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  4. #29
    Registered Boozer PPS26's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    well the only station i know that does not use ethanol gas is the mobile station on rt 25 in effingham-use it in our boat no problems.. here at the shop ethanol has been a huge issue in motorcycles with carbs, we recomend using spectro fuel stablizer with an ethanol conditioner in it.. manufacturers are now using stainless steel needle and seats instead of brass this seems to not be affected by ethanol. anything 2-stroke does not seem to be affected either since there is an oil mixture in the carbs at all times.

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  5. #30
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    I have seen multiple problems with the ethanol fuels, 1- I have a friend that works at a car dealership and has had alot of cars coming in with performance problems, he said they have been doing fuel tests and apparently ethanol does not stay mixed with gasoline real well because they have found as much as 24% ethanol in the tank said we should be running our tanks down closer to empty,unlike we have beat into our heads in the past to keep them off empty, and this is suppose to burn more of the ethanol , next I have found my chainsaw,has a new problem if you are not going to use your chainsaw or your weed eater for awhile drain your tanks it seems it reacts to plastics and rubber diaphragms in a bad way, causing them to swell and makes removing plastic fuel caps almost imposable, also swells the diaphragm fuel pumps in chainsaws causing poor or no performance, since these problems have been accruing I have also been draining the fuel from my race bike , so far no problems

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  6. #31
    Member SilverGhost's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraTwist View Post
    This has been killing my carborated bike as well. The best I can say is ( assuming the eth is the problem ) is to clean your jets and then make sure you always start the bike and let it run often. It seems to be working for me. I drained the bowls last winter and that didn't help as I believe the pilot jets are so small that the gas just stays in them. The first thing I did was to use an expensive injector clean, that didn't work. When I took the jets out the pilots were still fully clogged and the mains almost fully clogged.

    I thought my fuel injected bike was ok but now that I think of it, it has started behaving funny off throttle.
    You should drain your bowls in the spring every year but run the stable into them before storage. If you are continue getting lots of rust and brown crap, you need to clean your tank with etch or get a new tank.
    There are a lot of self proclaimed cleaners that do not work. The lucas fuel conditioner has been working great for me and some others.

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  7. #32
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGhost View Post
    You should drain your bowls in the spring every year but run the stable into them before storage. If you are continue getting lots of rust and brown crap, you need to clean your tank with etch or get a new tank.
    There are a lot of self proclaimed cleaners that do not work. The lucas fuel conditioner has been working great for me and some others.
    I used the lucas, but I think mine were to far gone for that to help. I have a friend who owns a mc shop and he says even the new Stabol will not work for more than two months, and the old formula even less. He's doing a lot amount of carb cleaning.

    This is what I'm going to try this year, drain the bowls, make sure the bike will not start. Then I'm going to blow ether down it and see if I can get some turns to create enough vacume so the pilots are really empty. If that does not work the carbs have to come off agian anyway.

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  8. #33
    Just Registered drop's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    massachusetts requires 10% ethanol at all stations, right? it seems most of the people here that have found non-ethanol stations are in vermont...

    higher wholesale prices (ethanol is transported separately & added later), lower fuel economy, decreased performance, and increased engine & fuel system problems. oh, and increased corn demand translates to higher feed cost and subsequently higher food prices for us. sounds like a great idea.

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  9. #34
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by drop View Post
    massachusetts requires 10% ethanol at all stations, right? it seems most of the people here that have found non-ethanol stations are in vermont...

    higher wholesale prices (ethanol is transported separately & added later), lower fuel economy, decreased performance, and increased engine & fuel system problems. oh, and increased corn demand translates to higher feed cost and subsequently higher food prices for us. sounds like a great idea.
    On plus side MBTE is really bad. What did they use before MBTE?

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  10. #35
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicknStripEatr View Post
    All gas stations get their gas from the same distribution terminals. Meaning, all gas arrives in port on a ship, not a Shell ship, or a Sunoco ship, just a ship. The terminal then distributes the gas to wholesalers i.e., the trucking companies that deliver the gas to retail locations. The reason why gas prices are higher for certain brands is due to the amount of profit the wholesale distributors choose to make for that particular brand. That is the ONLY difference in the fuel. The chemical compounds are the same regardless. I believe Ethanol gas is federal mandate, just because a station doesn't advertise that they sell Ethanol, doesn't mean they don't.
    ethanol is being used to replace MTBE, only counties that do not meet air quality standards are required to add an oxygenator

    in populates areas, an oxygenator is mandated cause of all the smog, in more rural areas that are not downwind from smog sources and air quality is good, many stations have unoxygenated gasoline,

    its not federally mandated everywhere

    chemical additives are not always the same even thought they came from the same supply, brands that use specific addatives, add the addatives by the 5 gallon pail when they are gettting fresh gas delivery

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  11. #36

    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraTwist View Post
    On plus side MBTE is really bad. What did they use before MBTE?
    The EPA thought MTBE tasted better than lead.

    MTBE in Drinking Water | Drinking Water Contaminants | Safewater | Water | US EPA

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  12. #37
    < This jacket for sale :) Vix's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    There is also supposed to be a non-ethanol station in Milton but I'm not sure exactly where it is.

    I'm pretty sure the one in Mallett's Bay, across from Mazza's General Store, said CoCo on the receipt. I'd have to check when I get home. I don't think anyone even works there, just pay with a credit card at the pump.

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  13. #38
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChR1s View Post

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  14. #39
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraTwist View Post
    I used the lucas, but I think mine were to far gone for that to help. I have a friend who owns a mc shop and he says even the new Stabol will not work for more than two months, and the old formula even less. He's doing a lot amount of carb cleaning.

    This is what I'm going to try this year, drain the bowls, make sure the bike will not start. Then I'm going to blow ether down it and see if I can get some turns to create enough vacume so the pilots are really empty. If that does not work the carbs have to come off agian anyway.
    Here is a lil trick if your in a pinch and you think a jet is plugged. Remove the air filters. Throttle up and use a clean rag and cover the carb only till it almost stalls and pull it off. Do this a couple of times. It will suck out the jets.
    Works great!!

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  15. #40
    Majer:Danjer™ ChicknStripEatr's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisc View Post
    The "Name Brand" companies add different types of additives/detergents. You pay more for "Top Tier" gas.

    Marketing is a wonderful thing isn't it?

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  16. #41
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    So what do you guys recommend for winterizing a carb'd bike??? I thought I had run my CB-1 until it stalled before storing over the winter, but the carbs are still effed up... want to know how to winterize her properly this time 'round...

    What suggestions do you all knowledgeable carb guys know?

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  17. #42
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    So what do you guys recommend for winterizing a carb'd bike??? I thought I had run my CB-1 until it stalled before storing over the winter, but the carbs are still effed up... want to know how to winterize her properly this time 'round...

    What suggestions do you all knowledgeable carb guys know?
    Running it till it stalls only stops it from running. But you can still end up with some fuel in the bowl and end up with varnish. Run some stable into it and then drain the bowls..

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  18. #43
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    And let sit all winter, or run it periodically while repeating the same procedure?

    I just don't want to have to rip the carbs apart *again* in the spring...

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  19. #44
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Add stabil to the gas tank and fill it up. Run it for five minutes and then let it sit. No need to drain the tank and the bowls.

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  20. #45
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    And let sit all winter, or run it periodically while repeating the same procedure?

    I just don't want to have to rip the carbs apart *again* in the spring...
    Yes let it sit.

    Quote Originally Posted by rjh200 View Post
    Add stabil to the gas tank and fill it up. Run it for five minutes and then let it sit. No need to drain the tank and the bowls.
    In the past I would not dissagree, but even with stable the 10% Eth will cause way to much oxydation.

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  21. #46
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Let the bike sit all winter. Don't start it unless you're going to ride it. Starting it without thoroughly heating up the engine will cause condensation to form inside, contaminating the oil and increasing the possibility of corrosion. So if there's a nice day during the winter, by all means start the bike up, and then ride it for 30 miles or so to be sure all the condensation has been cooked out of the oil. Otherwise, just leave the bike alone.

    And yes, add Stabil to the tank, fill it up, ride it home. By that point the Stabilized fuel should have worked its way into the carb bowls. But personally, I will drain the bowls before putting the bike away just in case the information earlier in this thread is correct about Stabilized gas breaking down in two months (entirely possible -- it definitely breaks down faster in small quantities, such as in the carb bowls).

    Also, I'll make a point of filling up with non-ethanol gas before putting the bike into winter storage... assuming anyone is still selling it by then.

    --mark

    PS: Starting my Triumph this morning at 53 degrees was a bitch. I ended up flooding the shit out of it with full choke, then closing the choke and starting it with the throttle half open and revving it a bunch of times, then going back to half choke until it was semi-warmed up. But it was still running a little rough by the time I got to work (only 3 miles, so not far enough for the engine to thoroughly warm up).

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  22. #47
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by markbvt View Post
    PS: Starting my Triumph this morning at 53 degrees was a bitch. I ended up flooding the shit out of it with full choke, then closing the choke and starting it with the throttle half open and revving it a bunch of times, then going back to half choke until it was semi-warmed up. But it was still running a little rough by the time I got to work (only 3 miles, so not far enough for the engine to thoroughly warm up).
    coldest ive started my kat this year was back in May and it was 36 degrees out. half choke started it no problem but on full choke it wouldnt start for crap. im assuming your talking about your 700 triumph so im sure the years make a difference.

    i have been running nothing but what ever i got where ever i stopped all season and dont seem to have any issues. i run my tank as low as i dare everytime i fill up. i couldnt tell you if im running lean or rich or what ever. i just think that the best thing for 10% eth fuel is go through it fast and run your tank low as often as you can.

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  23. #48
    Lifer markbvt's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by contrldsub View Post
    im assuming your talking about your 700 triumph so im sure the years make a difference.

    Not much of one. Hinckley Bonnevilles are notoriously coldblooded. Even bone stock ones take a lot of effort to start when it's less than 50 degrees or so out... and that's with good gas. It doesn't matter how hot it is out, if the bike's been sitting more than two or three hours, it needs choke to start. And when it's cold out, it needs partial choke for the first couple miles of riding.

    The whole Bonneville line is getting fuel injection for '09. It'll be interesting to see how much easier those start in the cold.

    --mark

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  24. #49
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    No doubt, the ethanol pump gas is crap. Unfortunately for many its a matter of buying non-ethanol street fuel from Klotz, VP, etc or dealing with the crappy fuel. Even then you've got to make sure you chose a product that is ethanol free. If you do that then you've got to add stabil or other fuel preservative.

    I've always done the same winterizing, pre and post ethanol. To date its worked well. Bike start with minimal turnover and/or kicks.

    Add Stabil, Fill the tank, ride the bike for 15 minutes (not just idle it), keep the bike running, cut the fuel (easy if you've got a petcock I know), let it stall out, drain the bowls, pull the plugs and fog the cylinders, replace the plugs. Remove the battery and trickle charge it over the winter.

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  25. #50
    < This jacket for sale :) Vix's Avatar
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    Re: Non-ethanol gas -- what stations have it?

    Well, went to the GoGo just south of Costco last night, all of their pumps are now marked with 10% ethanonl signs. I just filled up there the other day with non-ethanol fuel....

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