More Fishtail pics...

[Manny]

Lets get some FEEDBACK going peeps....




What am I looking at?

[LaRNZ]

look like ur helmet wants to come off

[spicy]

look like ur helmet wants to come off

toooo manyyyy GGGGGGG'S

[Manny]

Helmet fits fine. Lets get some USEFUL feedback...should have been more specific I guess....

[McBiggity]

unfreeze your upper body.

[schleppy]

I'm no racer, or expert by any means, but shouldn't your head be out over the clip-ons on more? Isn't the head supposed to be out with the shoulders?

[Manny]

unfreeze your upper body.

i can't.

[butcher bergs]

Loosen up your arms.

Everything you want to acheive in the name of smoothness is located in your legs. Grip with your outside leg in turns instead of trying to transfer that into the handle bars. It's very obvious you have a good amount of arm-input that you're utilizing to keep yourself positioned on the bike. It's unnecessary to do that.

You should have the sensation of being able to take your hands away from the bars. Don't actually do that, just try to acheive that feeling.

Once you get comfortable with that, dip your inside shoulder down more once you're in the turn.

[a13x]

You hold the throttle funny?

[sully749]

Sweet pics. I worked that trackday (checking in people in the morning at the gate and then cornerworking in the treehouse) and remember seeing your bike out there (and the suit - notable!). I thought you were looking good (and definitely faster than me . . . I was in the same group as you, in black leathers and also on a 749s with black bodywork.)

Gotta love photos, tho - they don't lie. I'm with Schleppy in thinking your chin should be inside more in each pic . . . your chin seems to line up with the fairing rather than getting it outside the fairing (toward the inside of the turn). I notice only b/c I do the same thing and it always shows up in photos and videos of me - body gets off but good, but that damn chin stays in.

Like I said, you were faster than I am, so don't feel you have to take my advice!! But my body positioning in pics is similar.

[sully749]

The tag on your leathers was inspiring all sorts of leatherwork for other people, by the way!!

[Manny]

You hold the throttle funny?

Discuss.




No, Seriously....discuss.

[Manny]

OK...I know my upper body is "crossed up" and my head needs to get down and out.....but despite being told it a hundred diff ways i am not doing it. I don't know why.....I'm stumped.....

I kind of feel like figuring out this detail will really make a huge change in my riding, getting input from the bike etc.....

Who has had this problem and how do I fix it one step at a time.....

[a13x]

Discuss.




No, Seriously....discuss.

- You don't seem to be holding entire grip
- You seem to have wrist angled out to the side therefore turning the throttle from a more side angle

Just 'looks funny'

Compare:




Everybody does stuff a lil different, just that's the one thing that really popped out to me. You asked so I said.

[GixerJockey]

OK...I know my upper body is "crossed up" and my head needs to get down and out.....but despite being told it a hundred diff ways i am not doing it. I don't know why.....I'm stumped.....

I kind of feel like figuring out this detail will really make a huge change in my riding, getting input from the bike etc.....

Who has had this problem and how do I fix it one step at a time.....

I had the same crossed-up problem. My solution was to grab Ken C. and tell him to fix it... No, serioulsy.

I was sitting up to high (much like you are). I needed my arms to support my body in that position. I "couldn't" move my upper body because it took away my support on the bike. Basically I was holding onto the bike with my arms and not supporting my weight with my legs.

Ken had me get on a bike and get into my normal riding position. From there he poked and prodded a little bit. Basically he helped manipulate me into a more natural and "correct" position.

The first step was to drop my inside shoulder. I had to consciously remember to do this for a few sessions. Once I could consistently drop my shoulder to the inside, the rest of it came together. It also forced me to learn how to hold on with the outside leg and foot. It opened a whole new chapter of progress for me. I have become much more comfortable, and much faster. Another benefit is that I become fatigued much less quickly.





Oh, and one more thing...





STOP LOOKING AT THE CAMERA!!!

[akira700]

Manny I do the same thing in the early part of the bowl.
Partly because I have gone down there and I have
a muscle memory that tenses me as I enter.
The tendency is to hold yourself up with your arms and shoulders.

My solution? Go slower. See if at 60% speed if you can relax
the outside shoulder. Then try to almost rest your outside forearm on to the
tank that will give the "space" to move your head more.
I still do tense up again as I wick it up but ya gotta start somewhere
and work from what you can do right.

[Manny]

Manny I do the same thing in the early part of the bowl.
Partly because I have gone down there and I have
a muscle memory that tenses me as I enter.
The tendency is to hold yourself up with your arms and shoulders.

My solution? Go slower. See if at 60% speed if you can relax
the outside shoulder. Then try to almost rest your outside forearm on to the
tank that will give the "space" to move your head more.
I still do tense up again as I wick it up but ya gotta start somewhere
and work from what you can do right.

The bowl for sure plays tricks on the mind!

I think I look the most "crossed up" there but better in 3 and 2. My goal of my 2 sept track days will be to work on this issue.

[Jonny Rocket]

When you go to lean off of the bike, move your whole body in a single plane instead of your hips or shoulders moving independantly. One thing that helps this is to use your midsection to assist your legs in gripping the bike instead of your arms/upper body. This will allow you to be very light on the bars and will give you much better body positioning in the turns.

[Crash Dummy Denno]

I've told you about 20 times pal, loosen up. Until you relax, you won't be able to do any of the above things mentioned by others. I'm still working to relax more too.

Loosen up...

Do this ->

[TTD]

It's always tough to look at a photo (opposed to video) because you're only seeing one moment of time.

As said in many threads though... everyone is a little different in their body position. I ride in about the same position as you. It is very uncomfortable for me to hang my head way down, so I worry only about my neck down.

I try to ensure that all of my spine is on the inside of the bike... and only my head is "crossed up".

However, the thing that is not subjective is being loose and relaxed... but again that's hard to tell from a photo. The rider must ultimately tell if he is loose and the no bullshit test is to "flap" your inner elbow mid corner.

If you can move your elbows up and down midcorner and the bike doesn't wiggle... then you're loose. Otherwise the flapping would cause minor steering corrections.

Not recommending it, but you'll see photos of our instructors almost knee down with inner hand off bar pointing. That is real proof that the rider is not stiff on the bar.

As for your grip on the throttle, that is another personal choice. Many riders say they have finer throttle control holding the bar like you do. If your hand straight onto the bar, you have to move your wrist up and down to open/close the throttle. If you come onto the throttle from the angle like you do, it's more of a rotation of the wrist...not up and down.

[Manny]

- You don't seem to be holding entire grip
- You seem to have wrist angled out to the side therefore turning the throttle from a more side angle

I think this just works for me because of the length of my arms (long). Also, not holding the throttle full on allows me to stay loose on it and the bars in general. Not sure its working, but it feels OK. I will think about it nest TD for sure.

STOP LOOKING AT THE CAMERA!!!

He was looking right at me, its rude not to look back!

I've told you about 20 times pal, loosen up. Until you relax, you won't be able to do any of the above things mentioned by others. I'm still working to relax more too.

Loosen up...

Do this ->

+1. Im just not loose I guess.

As for your grip on the throttle, that is another personal choice. Many riders say they have finer throttle control holding the bar like you do. If your hand straight onto the bar, you have to move your wrist up and down to open/close the throttle. If you come onto the throttle from the angle like you do, it's more of a rotation of the wrist...not up and down.

I think this is where I stand on the issue. Its more comfortable and kind of just works for me.


And now a little story: When I was at VIR a couple of years back the instructor I was working with came over to me at lunch and said "so when did you have the surgery?" I was like what? So he goes, "you are so stiff I just assumed you had back surgery recently".

I guess old habits die hard.....

[stevecbr900rr]

I think it's rude for you to display all those "sponsers" on your leathers when your not making a dime from them. You should have your secretary look into this as soon as possible. I for one have a long standing realationship with most of those you are claiming to "represent" or there for claiming to "represent" by having them on your persons. I demand you remove them now or face serious consiquences. Between me and you if you buy me a case of domestic beer we can forget i have ever seen the infraction. Plus i have a molar on the left side of my face that needs some attention. Theres one more demand i can't think of right now but i will get back to you...you can count on it.

[cdovego]

OK...I know my upper body is "crossed up" and my head needs to get down and out.....but despite being told it a hundred diff ways i am not doing it. I don't know why.....I'm stumped.....

I kind of feel like figuring out this detail will really make a huge change in my riding, getting input from the bike etc.....

Who has had this problem and how do I fix it one step at a time.....

One thing at a time...next time out - you've already got your lower body going in the right direction. Try working on supporting your upper body with the inside of your elbow on the gas tank. The rest of your upper body will follow suit once you get comfortable with your elbow on the tank. My 2 cents, nothing more.

[burnham]

Buy some better footpegs, the stock ones don't bite for shit. I like Woodcraft, but you may need something adjustable where as you look a little big (cramped?) on the bike. You may get a little more relaxed on the bike if you stretch before sessions, that and some Advil go a long way for me.

[nt650hawk]

Owens Racing Photos - Pick Your Photos
I found that Picture Tony. I have no idea who that is What and idiot..

I tell people all the time to sing that stupid chicken dance song. You know the part when you flap your arms. Na na na na naaaa. On the track I will flap my arms mid corner just to show them how loose on the bars you can be. Afterwards they usually hunt me down and start laughing and mention that you looked like a chicken. I asked whey were you laughing at me they usually reply "You looked so funny. I started laughing and from that point I had that image of you flapping you arms and I was much more relaxed. That was some of the best laps I had ever done." My job was done.


Gripping the bars. I tend to tell myself to make a circle around the grips with my thumb and other finger (one at a time) and try not to have this circle touch the grips. Let the bars float in-between the circle.



Upper Body. 1st try to bike the inside fork tube. Later on A la Jamie, Bite the inside bar/grip.

Another way to look at body position in to get you head-spine and but all in line with the inside fork tube.

Feel the tank with your fore arms. This is also a gauge. If you feel any movement/pressure moving back and forth on your arms you are applying unneeded pressure on the bars. Once you have that turn set (muscle memory) you do not add any more bar input. It is throttle control, weighting the outside peg and pushing the outside leg into the tank that is going to finish things up for you.
You seem a little apprehensive getting that knee out there. Believe me I was too. I now use it as a gauge. Let it swing out a little. This may have some part with your upper body getting twisted.