front brake assist in reversing turn.

**LiononaLeash** · 10-25-05, 10:26 AM

Hey guys,

Have any of you guys tried using a light touch of front brake when initiating a turn reversal? I have a fairly heavy bike(TLR) and I'm wondering if a light touch on the front brake might help make it easier to reverse a turn.. say... the fairly low speed chicane turn 12 at NHIS. The brake would not be for slowing... just to help get the bike moving back up in order to go the other way.

I'm just wondering if any of you do this.

Thanks

Bob

**JeffL** · 10-25-05, 10:31 AM

With the heavy bike, do you really have to fight the bars to stand it back up?

**LiononaLeash** · 10-25-05, 10:35 AM

Well... I'm "used to" the bike. I guess wrestling with the bars is a relative term.

The bike does not want to stand back up on its own though... so "maybe" is my answer.

**Awesome** · 10-25-05, 10:43 AM

I used the brake for this my first and second trackday. You don't need it, and it's kinda dangerous as you may wash the front depending on your timing and pressure. You just need to cooridnate moving your body, weighting the pegs, and putting in the needed amount of countersteering.

**benVFR** · 10-25-05, 10:54 AM

How about just using some of the engine braking to do the same? I do that on the VFR which is probably even heavier... still my bike is not hard to flick over, when I think it doesn't want to turn it is usually just my fault.

**LiononaLeash** · 10-25-05, 11:10 AM

No worries guys.... I was just curious about it.

**JeffL** · 10-25-05, 11:36 AM

Or just give it some gas to stand the bike back up.

**OreoGaborio** · 10-25-05, 12:25 PM

yup, that's a technique you can use, but as always, there's pro's & con's associated w/ it...

If you know there's no one tucked behind you then go for it, give it a shot, but if someone's behind you ya don't wanna be brake checking people, especially in a "no-passing zone" cuz they'll be worried about breaking the rules.

If you choose to do it, it's not gonna be the fast way around the track, but you're not racing so no worries about that. But like Jay said, it's a timing thing and you might find that it doesn't work as well as you'd hope. I've tried it too and i've found that using my body alot earlier is smoother and definitely feels faster.

Hopfully we can get more clarification on this from one of the expert riding physics instructors

**HBerry** · 10-25-05, 01:52 PM

Braking in 11a to 12 makes you go much more slowerer. As pete explained to me, you have a lot more time in that section then you think. Next time you go out on the track (yes I know its another year away) dont worry about the rest of the track and just focus on that section of the track, when you go from right turn to left, move your body off the right side to the left and then you can sort of yank the bike up and over to make the turn. You have ton's of room once you are taking a left, in fact you have all the way to the speedway wall.

**Awesome** · 10-25-05, 02:09 PM

what you want to do there is such......come through 11 pass the apex, put the bike from full left lean to full right lean, kindof blind to where you're going because of the curb and bad pavement, then once you enter there you can pull an imediate left, and there is plenty of room there as well. It took me a while, even after a number of race weekends to figure out what needed to be done there. If you're braking to change direction, you're likely going into the corners too deep, which is probably forcing you to need to turn tighter and faster than you really have to.

**OreoGaborio** · 10-25-05, 02:41 PM

Here's a couple quick video clips of some "fast guys" goin through that section (

) You can see that even though they're goin pretty quick, there's still plenty of time to really throw your body over to the other side of the bike & get it turned in.

http://gallery.daviid.net/albums/082...S/MVI_0002.avi
http://gallery.daviid.net/albums/082...S/MVI_0003.avi

**s a x m a n** · 10-25-05, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
Here's a couple quick video clips of some "fast guys" goin through that section () You can see that even though they're goin pretty quick, there's still plenty of time to really throw your body over to the other side of the bike & get it turned in.

http://gallery.daviid.net/albums/082...S/MVI_0002.avi
http://gallery.daviid.net/albums/082...S/MVI_0003.avi

OMG!! I'm pussy through there!!! WTF!!!

**OreoGaborio** · 10-25-05, 04:40 PM

It's designed to make us all pussies

**SVRACER01** · 10-25-05, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by T-595 Greg
can't imagine I would want to use the front brake while cornering... lack of grip & all, but hey, who knows, maybe it'd work.

braking while cornering is common practice in racing or whatever. if you arent braking to the apex then your not trying to go fast. after a while you will learn to get your braking done beforehand. dragging knee while braking is possible

**highsider** · 10-25-05, 06:06 PM

I suggest sticking a cheese sandwich down your pants, it will make you much faster.*

*Stolen hot info from another web site.

**OreoGaborio** · 10-25-05, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by highsider
I suggest sticking a cheese sandwich down your pants, it will make you much faster.*

*Stolen hot info from another web site.

Hey, if Paul Duval says it, it must be true.... but he said GRILLED cheese sandwich

**Paul_E_D** · 10-25-05, 08:59 PM

Haha! Put a grilled cheese down your pants, then...

I personally wouldn't try to use the brake in a chicane. T1, T3, the bowl, OK Some trail braking will help you turn that beast in.

JeffL actually gave away my technique for T12. Throw it in to the right and immediately gas it to flip the bike to the left. I use a tall gear so I can whack the throttle wide open without highsiding and I just hold it open and ride the torque curve out onto the straight.

I know what you're thinkin' "That's on a wimpy 125, NOT a big twin" But I learned this following Jeff Wood on his buell, so I'm guessing it applies!

Seriously, this makes the change of direction almost effortless. Use minimal throttle at first and build it up til the left/right transition feels easier. This is a recipe for wheelies, so control that throttle!

If you crash, I will deny ever having said this.

**Paul_E_D** · 10-26-05, 06:51 PM

Interestingly, I just read in Code's book that a well timed roll OFF will help you chagne directions. As in: tip it in, get on the throttle, then roll off the moment before you steer to the other side. Exactly the opposite of my suggestion!

He suggests this for same reasons you wanted to touch the front brake. To get the front end down for better geometry.

I use this technique in 1-1a, 1a-2, and 9-10 and it works great.

I used to do it in the T12 chicane, but I've found a faster way through. Try both and see what you like...

front brake assist in reversing turn.

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