Guilty until proven innocent, the tale of a sportbike rider...

[RedRider]

A couple friends (riding 2 up) and I stopped at a Stratham, NH D&D yesterday for some iced coffee. We had been riding around the seacoast for a couple hours or so. A short time later while reminiscing about some good times on the bikes, I turn my head to do a quick bike check and I see a LEO standing next to my bike, writing down my info!! My first thought - "I can't even sit down and drink coffee without getting a damn ticket!"

So I jump up and go outside to confront the newest member of my "fanclub."

I'm say: "WTF officer, are you preparing my ticket before I even hit the street??" I was aware I had committed no crimes in this particular town, so it was the only thing I could assume.

He asks if I'm the owner of the bike... Duh...

So I ask what the f*ck he's doing. By the time I get to this point, my friend comes out to see what's up. It was a good thing, because the officer proceeded to demand we tell him the exact route we had ridden earlier. IMO - This alone constitutes harassment and fishing, but I was curious where he was going with all this...

We didn't know if some old bag had called in to complain about my occasional wheelie demonstration, so we proceeded to vaguify the route into something indecernable. He looked pretty confused, so our plan was working, which was good because we did't know what the heck he was trying to pin on us. He decided to take the interrogation a step further and ask for our licenses at which point I told him "No way ossifer" not unless you tell us what we're being interrogated for...

At this point he seemed to realize he was overeaching without giving up the goods on our presumptive guilt.

"Two red and blue race bikes were just reported to be knocking mailboxes over in Epping. They fit the description of your bikes, so don't go anywhere, I'll be back..." Epping was 3 towns away and he told us the incident happened 5 minutes ago, not to mention we had been at the D&D for 15 minutes already. Pretty efficient criminal activity if you ask me!!

Needless to say, the story goes on to include myself walking up to the cruiser to demand my license back... then alot of yelling... some bystanders voicing support for us... blah blah blah... etc etc.

Finally we happen to overhear the description of the suspects over his radio and find out it was 2 kids wearing backpacks, one with a paper plate, and both riding one up with no helmets (my friend was 2 up on his bike, and I was helmeted, we both had hard plates and no back packs). Nothing at all like our description! I wonder if there might have been other red and blue sportbikes out yesterday??

So my question is: Do all LEOs run around half-cocked everytime an APB goes out, or are they bred f*cking stupid, or both??!

Does anyone have a similar story of non-moving harassment??!

I've never seen sportbike harassment this bad in all my long years!! Just be prepared to prove your innocence if you encounter any cops in Stratham, NH, even if you're not moving!!

[PinHead]

Seems the shit is getting really deep this year. Too many stories of harrasment allready really sucks.

[Dragongirl]

Damn - You're not having much luck so far this year are you!!!

[Ken]

whadya give him your liscence for? I'm sure that it would "make things smooher" to coperate, but since you werre "demanding" and "yelling" I'm surprised that you weren't followed out of town or locked up for disorderly conduct (".. some bystanders voicing support for us..."). Yep. It sucks to get harassed by "The man". It sucks even more when some dick head gives the Man a hard time so that he gets after all bikes. Lighten up Francis, the man (small "m") was just doing his job. Poorly, but not all Doctors are asked to teach brain surgury eitther.....

[RedRider]

DragonGirl, I'm always complaining about something... LOL

[RedRider]

Ken,

What proof would my license or registration have given him that I was the perpetrator in this "crime."

None.

So why are we being considered the perpetrators? Because I have a blue bike and my friend has a red bike 3 whole towns away? And why should I have to wait around for him to "check me out" when my license and registration offer him no evidence of anything?

I question authority when I'm inconvenienced by a moron who can't even figure out that it's impossible for us to be the perpetrators in his crime in the first place.

Did my friend get up Saturday morning and say "hey honey, lets go out riding with RedRider today and kick over some f*cking mailboxes..."

I don't think so. To top it all off, he was investigating a crime that wasn't even in his jurisdiction... the crime took place in Epping. Was he going to extradite me to Epping for prosecution??

What a joke.

If you think kissing his ass is a good way to let him know he's made a mistake, you are clueless. By making it uncomfortable for him to push us around, he'll be much less likely to detain someone without cause in the future and if not, it's because he was an asshole to begin with and nothing that I said made him that way.

You make it easy for him to treat you like a chump, and you're gonna become a chump.

[Ken]

Originally posted by RedRider
Ken,

What proof would my license or registration have given him that I was the perpetrator in this "crime."

None.

So why are we being considered the perpetrators? Because I have a blue bike and my friend has a red bike 3 whole towns away? And why should I have to wait around for him to "check me out" when my license and registration offer him no evidence of anything?

I question authority when I'm inconvenienced by a moron who can't even figure out that it's impossible for us to be the perpetrators in his crime in the first place.

Did my friend get up Saturday morning and say "hey honey, lets go out riding with RedRider today and kick over some f*cking mailboxes..."

I don't think so. To top it all off, he was investigating a crime that wasn't even in his jurisdiction... the crime took place in Epping. Was he going to extradite me to Epping for prosecution??

What a joke.

I agree. I'm not sure what the laws in NH are, but in MA the cops can't make you give them a liscens unles you are operating a motor vehicle. Since you were bound and determined to give the guy a hard tiem, I am surprised that you gave up you papers. If the damage that the kids caused was over a certain amount of money, the crime is a fellon, and he sure could have locked you up and called Epping to come and get you. SInce the property destroyed was mail boxes it might have enev been a Federal Offence.

If you think kissing his ass is a good way to let him know he's made a mistake, you are clueless. By making it uncomfortable for him to push us around, he'll be much less likely to detain someone without cause in the future and if not, it's because he was an asshole to begin with and nothing that I said made him that way.

You make it easy for him to treat you like a chump, and you're gonna become a chump.

Not really, but if the guy takes a dislike to you and you do something in his hurisdiction, even by mistake, he can get you for that. If you were causing such a dsturbance in a public place to the extent that passers by noticed it you were disorderly and the guy could have locked you up for that. Then you bike would have been "towed" and searched and impounded. That, my friend, is not my idea of a good time!

ken

[RedRider]

I did not cause a tirade that aroused attention. They heard what was going on because the officer was interrogating us right in front of the door, where the bikes were parked.

I know how to conduct myself within the bounds of decency. My knowledge of decency is what makes me concerned when LEOs conduct themselves in this way - It is indecent.

You seem intent to infer you can make nice with someone who is already operating without cause.

You are obviously wrong, because you need to call them when they err, it's very easy to do that without being disorderly.

If less people worried about angering LEOs that harass them, and just told them to stop, less LEOs would take advantage of those such as yourself.

The only advice I can give others is don't be like Ken, stand up for yourself in a respectful manner, and don't assume you need to prove your own innocence, as Ken seems to think of anyone who tells an officer to leave them alone.

[StumpyNB]

I'm with you on this one. I would have given the cop a REAL hard time. If I do something, and I get busted for it... fine... I screwed up. But if he is wasting my time, threatening me, and otherwise harassing me, just because he has nothing better to do, then I'm going to damn well give him an earful.

[bemused]

didja get his name / badge # / vehicle # / etc?

[bigred875]

good cop bad cop in my experience you are the one who loses out in the end when you give a cop a hard time. Yes sir no sir gets a lot further then talking shit...they are there all shift and could careless about how long they have to detain you. Give'em shit and you are gonna be there for awhile..in fact that pissing people off that give them a hard time is like a perk.....

If you are right or wrong..or if they are...niether makes a difference...they hold all the cards.. and a judge will take thier word over yours.

[odduc]

Similar experience for me a coupla years ago...

I was travelling on Route 101 East just ouside Milford, NH. I was pulled over by a Milford cop. Long story, short:The cop tells me that there was a black "crotchrocket" blasting up and down 123 scaring the blue hairs. So I tell the cop that it could not have been me because I had not been on 123. He told me that he would have to write me a warning, anyway. When I told him again that I was not on the road in question, he told me it didn't matter and that it was just a "warning". But, I became frustrated and repeated a third time that I was not on 123 and that I would refuse to sign anything. to which he handed me the warning and told me to "have a nice day" and "slow it down", even though I had done nothing wrong.

I am convinced that LEOs just don't like guys on sportbikes.

[VinceF2]

Originally posted by lrrs167
I am convinced that LEOs just don't like guys on sportbikes.

[stoinkythepig]

I would have let him write all the info he wanted to and stayed inside to enjoy my coffee. Nothing illegal about looking and writing and he wasn't harassing you (yet, the lame excuse he used leads me to believe he was planning to). I think you made the situation worse by confronting him because the next time he sees you on the road he's surely going to remember you and he will not be in a forgiving mood. Right or wrong, situation will still suck for you and he'll be getting PAID to make it suck...

I do whatever I can to not attract LEO attention and I usually swallow my pride and treat them politely or at least non-confrontationally when I do have to interact with them. You can save yourself a lot of money and aggravation by doing the same. It sucks sometimes to swallow one's pride but if you are not ticketed you can later take pride in the way you controlled the situation and your own fate. I take in pride in the written/verbal warnings I get.

[RedRider]

The cop tells me that there was a black "crotchrocket" blasting up and down 123 scaring the blue hairs.

LMAO... Too funny. It seems that "crotchrocket" is a term they all like to use. It should be mandatory that we correct their terminology to substitute "sport bike."

Of course some guys on this forum would say that's even stepping too far over the line... I ask where has our freedom of speech gone in this country?

[VinceF2]

Originally posted by stoinkythepig
I would have let him write all the info he wanted to and stayed inside to enjoy my coffee. Nothing illegal about looking and writing and he wasn't harassing you (yet, the lame excuse he used leads me to believe he was planning to). I think you made the situation worse by confronting him...

[stoinkythepig]

Originally posted by RedRider
I ask where has our freedom of speech gone in this country?

It still exists, but as always, freedom of speech comes with freedom of consequences.

[RedRider]

Stoinky, I'll defer to Stumpy on this one... I always suck up my pride if I am rightly accused of something or caught in the act. I'll even go so far as to say "that was dumb, I should've known better..."

I guess the only way for you all to know how my situation played out, was to have been in my shoes, but I see where you're coming from and understand your argument.

I guess the older I've become, the less tolerant I am when accused of crimes I haven't committed. Especially when it's by a cop outside his jurisdiction, based on nothing more than bike color, while being multiple towns away and not even in motion on the road in any general direction.

Just seems like the height of arrogance.

[RedRider]

I probably did make the situation worse by confronting him. But it was a question of whether I would talk to him right now or in 5 minutes. The confrontation was inevitable.

No one on here can honestly tell me if a LEO is 10 feet away writing down all your info, you're not going to want to go outside and ask him why he's doing that... Gimme a break.

[stoinkythepig]

Originally posted by RedRider
Stoinky, I'll defer to Stumpy on this one... I always suck up my pride if I am rightly accused of something or caught in the act. I'll even go so far as to say "that was dumb, I should've known better..."

I guess the only way for you all to know how my situation played out, was to have been in my shoes, but I see where you're coming from and understand your argument.

I guess the older I've become, the less tolerant I am when accused of crimes I haven't committed. Especially when it's by a cop outside his jurisdiction, based on nothing more than bike color, while being multiple towns away and not even in motion on the road in any general direction.

Just seems like the height of arrogance.

No doubt it was an arrogant move. I am sure the guy is dumb and a dick. Treat it as a challenge to manipulate the guy to your advantage. He will think he won but you'll KNOW you did. Beats the hell out of winning in court...

[stoinkythepig]

Originally posted by RedRider


No one on here can honestly tell me if a LEO is 10 feet away writing down all your info, you're not going to want to go outside and ask him why he's doing that... Gimme a break.

I honestly can say I would not, I always let them approach me. I try to be invisible. He may have just been bored and baiting you for something to do...

[RedRider]

I honestly can say I would not, I always let them approach me. I try to be invisible. He may have just been bored and baiting you for something to do...

You're right about that and I did take the bait... I obviously need a cloaking sheild for my bike, maybe LP is in the development stages on one

[VinceF2]

Originally posted by RedRider
I guess the older I've become, the less tolerant I am when accused of crimes I haven't committed.

How was the act of recording your information accusitory?

Originally posted by RedRider
Especially when it's by a cop outside his jurisdiction...

I believe you said that the incident happened in another town... although that Officer was in the town he worked for... therefore he was in his jurisdiction... The incident may not have occured in his town... but towns contact and assist one an other all the time

Originally posted by RedRider
...based on nothing more than bike color, while being multiple towns away and not even in motion on the road in any general direction.

Had you not created an arguement with him I would venture to guess that he would have recorded your information... ran your info and been done with it... The initial description was probably pretty vague... happens all the time until an Officer is able to speak directly with a complaintant... At the very least your initial actions towards him set precedence for how he was to act to you for the remander of the inquiry... IMO of course...

Originally posted by Ken
but in MA the cops can't make you give them a liscens unles you are operating a motor vehicle.

Ken... just to clarify... the law in MA regarding refusal to produce a license (90/25) states "Any person who, while operating or in charge of a motor vehicle..."

90/25

In this case the Officer made it was clear he was "in charge" of the motor vehicle by first asking if he was the owner... therefore he was obligated to produce the license when requested.... In MA anyway... like you I am unsure of NH laws...

[RedRider]

I'm not sure what the law is for producing a license, especially when I'm on private property and not on a public road and not in motion. That was why I gave him my license. I do know that it is unlawful to be detained and searched without cause. That was what I considered the situation to be.

Let me make an analogy:

Some kids in a blue car are seen knocking mailboxes over in a particular town. No plate info is recorded and no model information is available for the vehicle. Is it then still lawful to pull over any blue car within a 50 mile radius, just because a complaint was phoned in to the dept?? I don't see how the vehicle color alone can provide cause to randomly search and interrogate people at will.

[VinceF2]

Originally posted by RedRider
Let me make an analogy:

Some kids in a blue car are seen knocking mailboxes over in a particular town. No plate info is recorded and no model information is available for the vehicle. Is it then still lawful to pull over any blue car within a 50 mile radius, just because a complaint was phoned in to the dept?? I don't see how the vehicle color alone can provide cause to randomly search and interrogate people at will.

You are correct.... a "blue car" within a 50 mile radius is not enough PC to make a stop, search and interrogattion...

which is why what he did was a threshold inquiry... he did not interrogate you... an Officer is allowed under law to initiate a Threshold Inquiry to establish reasonable suspicion which would lead to probable cause...

The initial inquiry does not have to be founded on solid PC... during the Threshold Inquiry you were not detained and were free to leave at any point... had that inquiry lead to reasonable suspicion and then PC... you could have then been detained etc...

I don't believe you were searched either... correct? so no issue there...

So... back to the blue car in 50 miles... that would be very common.... but now take a report of a red and blue sportbike traveling together... and then happening upon parked red and blue sportbike... together, within a reasonable area of the incident... not as common as all the blue cars around correct?

You stated that the amount of riders was wrong... but at that point how would the Officer know the amount of passangers when the bikes are parked?

He was well within his rights to initiate the Threshold Inquiry based on the information he had... It lead to nothing, other then another sportbiker with an attitude (in his view I am sayin), so it went no where...

You may be pissed about it... but he did not go out of his duties and you were not infringed upon per the law...

Again... this is all MA... but I would venture to think that NH is the same if not very similar...