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Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

  1. #26
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    The point is the "Harley People" market is dying (literally), and this is their (first of many) attempt to get *new* customers.
    That makes sense, but I think they've branded themselves far too far in a different direction than to try and right the ship with this attempt.

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  2. #27
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Based on my limited experience, this effort will fail because of the dealer channel.

    Stopped into Manchester HD to look at the Buell Ulysses. When the salesman saw me looking st the bike, his conversation with his coworker suddenly became engrossing. The parts counter guy answered my questions and I walked out, convinced anyone buying one would see resale drop like a rock.

    There was a lot of buzz on the Sportster forum about the XR1200 so I went to take a look. Rode over to Boston HD, asked the salesman if they had one. He pointed to one, tucked in a corner surrounded by other bikes. He didnít know anything about the bike: not even the price. I walked out, convinced anyone buying one would see resale drop like a rock.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 01-30-19 at 10:28 AM.
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  3. #28
    Posting Freak BSR6's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Assuming the shocks are as good as they appear, this is precisely the direction they need to go but it's the only bike in the lineup that's going there.

    2019 FXDR Motorcycle | Harley-Davidson USA

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  4. #29
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    21k. Fuck out of here with that shit.

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  5. #30
    Senior Member MUZ720's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!


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  6. #31
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    must have been the rear one, or no one would have noticed...

    (sorry, couldn't help maself...)

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  7. #32
    Senior Member MUZ720's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Lol

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  8. #33
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BSR6 View Post
    Assuming the shocks are as good as they appear, this is precisely the direction they need to go but it's the only bike in the lineup that's going there.
    "Minimal weight for maximum performance"

    Weighs 670lbs

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  9. #34
    Posting Freak BSR6's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tekime View Post
    "Minimal weight for maximum performance"

    Weighs 670lbs
    Yeah I got a kick out of that one too.

    But if you understand the Harley draw it's not really about weight or performance, it's about a more capable bike that maintains the brand's character. The term performance here is relative to what Harley typically offers, not to the market as a whole.

    That's the thing Harley has going for them...They have a kind of character that no other bike has. Like it or not, you have to admit they are in their own lane in this regard and that's what the brand is about. The problem with character on that level is that for some it becomes more about image than riding which I think is why the Harley fan base is perhaps the worst thing about the brand.

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  10. #35
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Based on my limited experience, this effort will fail because of the dealer channel.
    While I agree that the HD buying experience isn't for most of us, I see it's angle. Strikes me as a lot like the Apple store experience. Lots of overtrained, reading from the script sales geeks that expect you to be enthusiastic about what they are selling before the conversation starts already. They aren't geared for leading with price. It isn't a volume or wholesale retail experience. Total opposite. If you're looking for something "special", they are right up your alley.

    I bought a used, off lease cop bike from them. Thing had an inch of dust on it when I first looked at it and whoever had done the decommission did a shitty job buttoning things back up as it had the screen loose and a few fasteners half-assed back together. But the price was right. Back on the showroom floor talking new the salesman had been of almost zero value to me as I already knew the retail price and important (to me) specs. I was not interested in their upsell accessories or chrome catalog or t-shirt line. I found it hilarious that despite buying their off-cuts I was still given the full pomp. Ring the assholish bell. Have everyone on the sales floor stop and "congratulate" me. Get the tour and meet every department heads' name. Get a shitty cell-phone picture of you with your new "ride" out front. It was a polished and well rehearsed experience. I negotiated one busy Saturday afternoon and watched a number of boomers basking in the attention, soaking the experience up. I signed on a slow week night after work and enjoyed going through the motions with them in relative privacy. It was quite something. I even got to be that annoying guy who asked for things like a hard copy of the maintenance records and asking the apparel "consultant" about the CE rating of the pads in their jackets. Ironically, the one department they do not introduce you to is the parts counter. After we were done I wandered over and bought a couple oil filters from two older, rather down to earth and knowledgable gentlemen.

    Harley puts a lot of energy (and money) into that experience. For some buyers it is a real part of the experience.

    Contrast with the "take it or leave it" experience at the BMW or KTM dealers.. or the "what the fuck do you want" treatment at your average Japanese make shop.

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  11. #36
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by joshk1025 View Post
    I think a nice approach into the electric market is what CSC is doing with their City Slicker - basically an electric grom clone. It doesn't have massive range, but it is not meant for extended riding anyway. Nice price point, something that could get a beginner started without muss or fuss.

    2019 CSC Motorcycles City Slicker CTYSKR-BLUE | CSC Motorcycles
    I wonder how these smaller bikes cross with a 49cc and lower no need to register scooter?

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  12. #37
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    What's interesting to me is how they're approaching the so-called "new wave" of riders. HD is selling a story, an experience, and a lifestyle. I'm sure the bell-ringing and back-patting is a big part of that working in the past, but at the end of the day I'd guess that ticket to the HD club is what most people are buying. The selfies probably come second to joining the Harley brotherhood. Like any status symbol, it doesn't exist without the people who revere it. Those people are fading, and that image is not only falling out of favor but is being actively rejected by new generations. Harley is stuck in an odd position of trying to find a new story to sell without gutting the story they've lived by for so long.

    I like their push into electric - if I was a Harley exec I'd dig deep into HD history and revive some of the super classic bikes. Like, the really old stuff, 20s & 30s, but sporting a bit of new technology and having a really antiquated feel. Something that would strike a chord with the old timers and the hipsters alike. Maybe they've already tried?

    Like, I wonder how an electric version of the model J might go over...


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    Last edited by Tekime; 01-31-19 at 01:36 PM.
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  13. #38
    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    I wonder how these smaller bikes cross with a 49cc and lower no need to register scooter?
    that's a good question...electric so no engine size to go by so maybe they go by the top speed...top speed is 40-42 for that csc bike so maybe it would be a limited use vehicle?...i think it depends what it's federally certified as...it does call it a motorcycle on their website but not sure if that actually means anything...i heard that this year the rmv is going to start plating everything even 50cc scooters...but this was from someone on the internet that had gone to the rmv and heard it from an rmv employee so not sure how true it is...but they do have a low speed category...not sure if that's new or not...low speed, moped, limited use, motorcycle, electric vehicle...too many categories

    currently...
    http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...ml#post1520788

    moped definition...not a moped...goes over 30mph and doesn't have a cylinder capacity...
    Moped registration and operation requirements | Mass.gov

    limited use vehicle definition...may fall into this category...if not it gets considered a motorcycle...
    Register a limited use vehicle | Mass.gov

    does it fall into the electric vehicle category?
    RMV: Electric Vehicle Plate | MassDOT Blog

    pages 63-65
    https://www.mass.gov/files/RMV_Passe...950.1486045934

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    Last edited by Point37; 01-31-19 at 02:10 PM.
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  14. #39
    Posting Freak BSR6's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    After buying my 99 Super Glide project bike last summer I was tempted to start a thread on this forum and call it "Diary of Fixing a Harley". In hindsight I regret not doing it. As I recall how it all went down, I realize the various stories worthy of internet gold that I could tell. Starting with what I heard when consulting with other Harley riders, to my experiences going to the dealer for parts, and finally the impressions that emerged as I worked on the bike.

    I will say that while my journey led me to see how ridiculous the Harley fan base is, I also found a genuine base within it. They're the ones that don't brag, aren't trying to be cool, and admit the bikes are far from superior in many ways. They just like riding them and have a preference for their distinct character. Part of my problem with Harley is their lack of interest in this faction. When I look at the new line up I can't help but feel they are being left behind.

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  15. #40
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BSR6 View Post
    Part of my problem with Harley is their lack of interest in this faction.
    Its the same old story; bunch of broke-dicks...

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  16. #41

    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BSR6 View Post
    After buying my 99 Super Glide project bike last summer I was tempted to start a thread on this forum and call it "Diary of Fixing a Harley". In hindsight I regret not doing it. As I recall how it all went down, I realize the various stories worthy of internet gold that I could tell. Starting with what I heard when consulting with other Harley riders, to my experiences going to the dealer for parts, and finally the impressions that emerged as I worked on the bike.

    I will say that while my journey led me to see how ridiculous the Harley fan base is, I also found a genuine base within it. They're the ones that don't brag, aren't trying to be cool, and admit the bikes are far from superior in many ways. They just like riding them and have a preference for their distinct character. Part of my problem with Harley is their lack of interest in this faction. When I look at the new line up I can't help but feel they are being left behind.
    You should start that thread

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  17. #42
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by joshk1025 View Post
    You should start that thread
    I would read it.

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  18. #43
    Senior Member MUZ720's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    +1

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  19. #44
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    +1.. and would probably share my own experiences, unsolicited-like

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  20. #45
    Posting Freak BSR6's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    A part of me wants to start it in retrospect but I finished the project last year and it would hard to truly capture the experience looking back that far.

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  21. #46

    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    I wonder how these smaller bikes cross with a 49cc and lower no need to register scooter?
    They are just barely over 40 mph limit for a LUV. I would think that if they came up with a way to restrict them to 30 MPH, they would be able to classify them as an electric moped. I don't think they have a manual gearbox.

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  22. #47
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    New Zero motorcycle just revealed, the SR/F.

    110hp/140ftlb, 485lbs, 161 miles range*, 80 minutes charge time to 95% capacity with optional 6Kw fast charger.

    Premium version does the same, but with 60 minute charge time.

    Bosch stability control, over the air updates, etc.

    $18999 for the standard, I think $21k for the premium.

    *best case, city driving. Mixed used is more like 109 miles.

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    Last edited by TheIglu; 02-25-19 at 01:10 PM.
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  23. #48
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Eagerly anticipating the March release of the Lightning. Water cooled motor, while the Zero is air cooled.

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  24. #49
    Member Zolden's Avatar
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    New Zero motorcycle just revealed, the SR/F.

    110hp/140ftlb, 485lbs, 161 miles range*, 80 minutes charge time to 95% capacity with optional 6Kw fast charger.

    Premium version does the same, but with 60 minute charge time.

    Bosch stability control, over the air updates, etc.

    $18999 for the standard, I think $21k for the premium.

    *best case, city driving. Mixed used is more like 109 miles.
    I think they knocked it out of the park specs wise. These bikes are really starting to get there! Imagine twice the range and half the charge times listed, it's gonna happen. I'd wager before 2025.

    Who in their right mind would buy a Livewire over this now? Unless they really had cash to blow and like the aesthetics and HD name over real performance THAT much. But I guess that's what HD has going for it with their target market now.

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  25. #50
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    Re: Harley Electric Live Wire Details / Orders:$$$29,800!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Eagerly anticipating the March release of the Lightning. Water cooled motor, while the Zero is air cooled.
    The motor isn't where the thermal issues are, it's the batteries that hit their thermal limits first.

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