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HD to buy Ducati?

  1. #26
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?


    You really need to take the time to learn about the Buell/ HD arrangement before posting again. Everything from the HD agreement is a direct result of what we are seeing now. No two ways about it.

    At the time of Hero entering the picture, Erik Buell was dealing with leftover legal action brought on by HD while he was seeking funds to start and sustain EBR (which is where Hero came in).

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  2. #27
    Lifer
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    I am just saying if a guy files for bankruptcy over and over again, there's a good chance he is to blame for a lot of it.
    When trump does it, he is a good business man working the system. When Erik buell does it, he sucks and is to blame.

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  3. #28
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    At the end of the day EBR did work that would bill out under contract for Hero for X, they only got paid a fraction of X. Any other details / past history / etc aside, Hero did not meet their obligations, this contributed to EBR's demise this time around.

    I get that you don't like Erik Buell as a businessman, and generally I agree that he's done a good job shooting himself in the foot multiple times, but there is no sugarcoating Hero pulling a fast one. They got more than they paid for, full stop.

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  4. #29
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by butcher bergs View Post
    You really need to take the time to learn about the Buell/ HD arrangement before posting again.
    Yeah, no. I could care less about Buell and not going to spend any more time on this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gixxer View Post
    When trump does it, he is a good business man working the system. When Erik buell does it, he sucks and is to blame.
    Not touching this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    At the end of the day EBR did work that would bill out under contract for Hero for X, they only got paid a fraction of X. Any other details / past history / etc aside, Hero did not meet their obligations, this contributed to EBR's demise this time around.

    I get that you don't like Erik Buell as a businessman, and generally I agree that he's done a good job shooting himself in the foot multiple times, but there is no sugarcoating Hero pulling a fast one. They got more than they paid for, full stop.
    Hero makes appalling products that lack even an ounce of creativity. Always have. Bajaj is the Indian company with a little bit of creativity and product design chops. TVS is another much smaller player that's even better in that regard. Hero and EBR getting together is like AMC and Delorean saying "right, let's make some cars" - disaster from the get go.

    Back to regular programming.

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    Last edited by xxaarraa; 06-22-17 at 11:43 AM.

  5. #30
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Yeah, no. I could care less about Buell and not going to spend any more time on this topic.
    You cared enough to be so passionate about it this morning and right up to the point where you realized that you might be lacking significant information on the topic. Now you've lost your steam.

    As I said, I'd be more than happy to discuss the other JV's with you but I can already see where the conversation would end up.

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  6. #31
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Hero makes appalling products that lack even an ounce of creativity. Always have. Hero and EBR getting together is like AMC and Delorean saying "right, let's make some cars" - disaster from the get go.
    This is why Hero looked for an opportunity to buy in some creativity on the cheap, and with EBR dealing with a legal fight with HD and all the fun of restarting again they were looking to sell services however they could. Need meet market.

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  7. #32
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Back to the topic at hand...

    Who's up for a Ducati bagger oozing with Italian design elements while retaining its traditional bad-ass 'merican attitude.

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  8. #33
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    Back to the topic at hand...

    Who's up for a Ducati bagger oozing with Italian design elements while retaining its traditional bad-ass 'merican attitude.
    You mean the Diavel?

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  9. #34
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Cruisers are totally not my thing, but the Diavel is pretty awesome for being considered one. Not really in the same category as an H-D bagger though. Take its engine and throw it in a Road King and it would probably be a pretty big improvement, though I doubt Harley guys would think so.

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  10. #35
    Lifer
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    Back to the topic at hand...

    Who's up for a Ducati bagger oozing with Italian design elements while retaining its traditional bad-ass 'merican attitude.
    I had actually just thought I wished Ducati still made a modest "sport tourer" like the st4, but they can do that without Harley.

    And they already have the diavel, slap some bags on it and whalah! Italian bagger!

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  11. #36
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Let's not forget HD's purchase of MV Agusta - bought for over $100 million and sold back to the original owners 2 years later for something ridiculous like $5

    Usually when you light $100mil on fire you learn something but maybe times have changed

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  12. #37
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    I could care less about Buell and not going to spend any more time on this topic.
    Couldn't

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  13. #38
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Diavel rear tire is too wide. Doesn't want to stay in a corner. Pass.

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  14. #39
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    VW must be really hard up for cash.
    That plus they probably F'ed with the Ducati emissions system too and want to "get out" before the

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    EBR never actually ever once in its history produce a commercially viable motorcycle.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    EBR martyr stories are getting old. Let the company die already.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    I don't know much about the Hero - EBR deal other than it never made sense, even to a 6 year old.
    [*]EBR is a company with cool ideas for very high end sport bikes for racing or leisure riding, but never had a business model worth a nickel. Just cool brakes don't make bikes sell.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Do you know that the platform was actually built and provided to Hero? That EBR actually delivered a viable product that Hero should pay for? I don't know that was done. Because Buell has a piss poor track record on that front.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Another way to look at this is EBR promising a bike, schematics and tooling but never delivering because they got busy living out fantasies in WSBK.

    The more you find out about this deal, the more it smells like Buell all over again - a great concept that never quite made it to commercially viable production.

    I am not saying Hero didn't screw over EBR. They very well could have. I am just saying if a guy files for bankruptcy over and over again, there's a good chance he is to blame for a lot of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Hero and EBR getting together is like AMC and Delorean saying "right, let's make some cars" - disaster from the get go.
    6 posts on your hate of EBR, did Mr. Buell rape and murder your dog, or something similar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gixxer View Post
    I had actually just thought I wished Ducati still made a modest "sport tourer" like the st4, but they can do that without Harley.
    Have you seen the new SuperSport, pretty close facsimile Ducati SuperSport


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    Last edited by FriskyDingo; 06-22-17 at 09:49 PM.

  15. #40
    Lifer
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Wow, no I hadn't. Looks nice.

    And yea, the heavy buell hate is a little weird. They are like the Washington Redskins to me... Don't like them, but nothing against them,

    Its a little unsettling for me. Like people who fear clowns...

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  16. #41
    Lifer
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Does this merger mean all the ducatinistas have to trade their arais for skull caps?

    No more lattes, only Bud.

    Jwm2k3, you have to wear chaps. Send pics.

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  17. #42
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gixxer View Post
    When trump does it, he is a good business man working the system. When Erik buell does it, he sucks and is to blame.
    My initial thought was: well, he should be the next president then.

    The buell hate is a laughathon. I think the saying goes "they lost, get over it" or something. As a former xb owner, I. Ergainly have.

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  18. #43
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    I still want an XB. Unfortunately the bike market in the northeast is crazily inflated. There's no way in hell I'm paying $5000 for a 13 year old Buell XB12.

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  19. #44
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Yeah I looked for one recently and couldn't believe they're the same damn price they were five years ago. Pass.

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  20. #45

    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    You guys need to look at the opportunities here - if HAD buys 'em the current models are gonna skyrocket in value and become collector items...time to flip some bikes!!

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  21. #46
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    You guys need to look at the opportunities here - if HAD buys 'em the current models are gonna skyrocket in value and become collector items...time to flip some bikes!!
    You do know 1992 isn't a current model, right?

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  22. #47
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by butcher bergs View Post
    You really need to take the time to learn about the Buell/ HD arrangement before posting again. Everything from the HD agreement is a direct result of what we are seeing now. No two ways about it.

    At the time of Hero entering the picture, Erik Buell was dealing with leftover legal action brought on by HD while he was seeking funds to start and sustain EBR (which is where Hero came in).
    How about taking the time to look at the agreement with MV and how that worked out. HD isn't going to hurt Ducati. Likely it will only help it and Ducati will be better off for it.

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  23. #48
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    I don't know that MV came out any better having merged with HD. As for Ducati I'd imagine it would hurt their image and product development. Having owned them I can agree with some of the comments about questionable engineering choices (plastic fuel tanks) but I appreciate they take the risk of introducing new tech even when it sometimes falls short during production. I think HD would be more risk averse. Bigger firm also tend to be more interested in the $$ (bean counters look at the cost of every nut and bolt). I doubt any Italian engineer working for Ducati thinks long about the cost.

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  24. #49
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    MV was sold for over 100mill and was deep in dept. they bought it back with zero dept for $3.98. I'd say they did pretty good

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  25. #50
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by motoarch View Post
    How about taking the time to look at the agreement with MV and how that worked out. HD isn't going to hurt Ducati. Likely it will only help it and Ducati will be better off for it.
    I have looked and the closest MV dealer to me is still 75 miles away. My next choice is to go to Canada. No dealership in NY, VT, NH, ME, CT or RI.

    Big deal, they went from red to black. There are numerous ways to erase debt. Show me growth and I'd otherwise agree.

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