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I'm going to say 110hp at the crank at best, 85hp at the wheel at best once actually complying with Euro emissions. Euro requirements will push the weight up to 380lbs wet, and will include a goofy ass rear fender extension.Quote:
Originally Posted by nt650hawk
Yeah, I think 110 is optimistic. The 821 based off of the 1198 motor puts over 100 to the wheel, but a parallel twin of lesser ccs would have to be something pretty special to match it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurlon
I'd be really surprised at 350lbs wet. That's barely over what the Duke 390 weighs dry.
If they could do 110HP Ptwin in a ~420lb adv bike, I'd dump my 1290SA in a heartbeat.
Weird, I was considering a monster 1100 evo a few years ago and thought that was around 100hp...Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_E_D
Is that cuz the evo was air cooled and the 821 is all new? I haven't paid much attention to the 821 cuz I just assumed it was not much different than the 796.... That, and no single sided swingarm!
THe 821 has nothing related to a 796. It is a sleeved down 11 degree testastretta motor. water cooled, revving to 11,500 and making pretty brutal power. It is NOT grunty like an older monster. It is smooth as silk, and power rises very linear with RPMs.
The 1100 was an aircooled 2V/cyl, that made about 95hp, and was all about the grunting (torque). The 821 is a more modern engine, with higher revs, watercooling, and 4V/cyl; it makes more power and less torque.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer
In comparing the 1100 vs. the 821 in the HyperMotard, the 821 made about 15% more power, but 15% less torque, than the 1100. I imagine the Monster compares similarly.
PhilB
Hyper 821 has a SSSA, does it not?
Hyper does, but that model is NLA. Not sure the monster does or not. Regardless, I have it on good intel that the 821 monster is the best of the breed.
Ah, the Monster 821 is a regular swingarm. Bummer. Never realized there were that many deltas between Monster and Hyper lineups. Weird.
IMHO, the S2R1000 is the best of the breed, followed closely by the S4RS. Of the newer stuff, M1200 all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_E_D
Watch your mouth, you know the S4Rs is superior.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottieducati
Eh, it's faster yes.... but as a pure-essece-of-a-street-motorcycle that the Monster embodies, the S4R is overkill, and the radiators absolutely ruin the lines of the bike. Not to take anything away from the S4RS, I've drooled over one for years. But simplicity is part of what the Monster was (read: "should be") about.... rules out liquid cooling IMO. The SF1098/848 is lighter / sharper / better handling than the S4RS anyway.
The last of the air-cooled, is the way to go IMO. Nothing can replicate the raw nature of a big bore 2V v-twin, particularly where you use it in the low- and mid-range.
But... back on topic. If I were on the hunt for something nekkid and nimble.... This new Katoom would be way, way up there on my list.
This is based on how much experience on the new 821? The new bikes are so much better than the 1st and 2nd gen it's not even a contest
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"Better" is a very subjective word. I've ridden the smaller liquid cooled Ducs, and yes... they're great bikes.... but as you said, the power delivery is not the same.
Nothing about them reminds me of a hot-rodded, carb'd M900. The one that started it. The last one that comes close to that is the M1200.
The Monster should feel raw, a bit like an untamed beast. The 821 engine is about as far from that as a Ducati can be.... not to mention the build quality of the newer line of Ducatis leaves a lot to be desired.
Have you swung a leg over a S4Rs for a couple of miles? If not, you're welcome to mine any time you can make it out to Weymouth. I get the vibe you haven't ridden one.
Sorry for sidetracking. I do like this prototype quite a bit, would not race it though.
I've had the pleasure of riding an S4RS a couple of times. I remember when I went to Ducati in the Rockies one time, a guy there had a seriously worked one with over 150 rwhp. Admittedly, it was the ONLY nekkid bike able to keep up with the Superbikes on that day. Thing was a beast!!Quote:
Originally Posted by cdovego
I'd still put my own money on an air-cooled, 1000cc+ Monster tho.
For rawness yes the older bikes. But for riding fast around corners they are arcane. The weight bias is too far back. Also. The 821 gets pretty wild when you wind it up. A very different character. But wild in it's own way. I have owned both and the quality of the new bike is better in almost every way. I do miss my old one at times though.
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Monster 1100 Evo. That's the one I throw into the CL search box every now and then. I have a bit of a thing for air cooled. The suspension and brakes sure look throughly modern and top shelf to me. And that SSSA look. I would not be looking to turn it into a race bike. Maybe track days. But mostly as a Sunday rider. I feel confident I could overlook some slight power deficiencies. Especially for the prices I see them at.
Hyper 1100 too. Although that chassis seems a bit more aggressive, less fun.
And the multi is just too fuggly. I think the Monster gets the packaging right.
I would race this KTM. In fact I think race and/or track use is the only upside to the premium over the SV650, FZ07, etc. If you're just looking for a street bike, get an SV and throw $1500 at the suspension. You'll be at least $2500 under what the rumors are for this thing and still have components that are more than good enough for street use.
You're right about weight, not enough on the front end of the older monsters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_E_D
What's your opinion of the new Bonneville t120? Fat and boring? A true "standard" bike while the monsters are "naked sportbikes"? Or on the street for casual riding are they relatively close?Quote:
Originally Posted by scottieducati
I think Triumph has nailed their new lineup. But they ain't monsters and nowhere remotely as track capable / high performing. They are lookers tho.
I still regret not buying a red 1100evo naults windham had three years ago. I've never ridden an air cooled bike tho. Are there annoyances?Quote:
Originally Posted by nhbubba
None. The Evo1100 almost made it into my garage. If I didn't have 50k miles on the original monster, I would have done it in a heartbeat. It was time for something different.
This may come out of left field, but did the hyper ever get sorted during its life as an 1100?
Something with that motor is on my bucket list.