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i like HJC

  1. #26
    Fork oil in my veins.... gmdboston's Avatar
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    i like HJC


    Quote Originally Posted by highsider View Post
    Serious question for gmdboston and anyone else with useful knowledge on the subject:

    My head has never fit well in anything other than an HJC. I have an AGV right now that was roughly $350, but it seems to shallow, like my chin pokes out the bottom. Before that, I had a $700 Arai, which was too narrow no matter what I did with the foam inside. I have tried on Suomys and Sharks, and neither seems to fit me well either (though I dont remember how.)

    So - which is safer? An HJC that fits well and carries the same ratings (higher end HJC, if there is such a thing) and fits perfectly comfortably, or a spendy Arai that is uncomfortably tight but presumably made better?
    Arai make 2 shell shapes, an "oval" and a "round" a good shop will get you the right fit by selecting the correct shape for your head then fitting the foam. Arai dealers are supposed to stock both shapes in most sizes and several foam size options for the head liner, and cheeks. Shoei has a round shape shell and some pad options. The composite HJC's seem to be acceptable for protection. I would never buy a polycarbonate regardless of brand or fit. I also would never buy a helmet online. You really need to go to a qualified dealer and have the helmet fitted to your head. Since one of my suppliers sells the Arai brand, I had to complete fitment training before we could purchase the Arai brand of helmets. I would find a dealer local to you that has completed the training, (just because they sell them doesn't mean the sales person you get has been through the training) and go in for a fitment. I know that Alan at Moto Market has a lot of experience with fitment. The process should take 30-45 minutes. If they don't have a suitable fit you will at least understand how a helmet should fit and can make a better choice among other brands. I would always go for the best brand with a good fit rather than a discount brand with a perfect fit.

    Lastly the service life for a helmet is 2-5 years. Five years if you rarely use it and keep it clean, in a bag, and in a closet. Two years if you wear it a lot as in 2-5 days a week for two seasons. And of course have it inspected after every crash. You can crack the shell and not knick the paint, send it back to the manufacturer and they will inspect it for you.

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  2. #27
    Lifer
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    Quote Originally Posted by highsider View Post
    Serious question for gmdboston and anyone else with useful knowledge on the subject:

    My head has never fit well in anything other than an HJC. I have an AGV right now that was roughly $350, but it seems to shallow, like my chin pokes out the bottom. Before that, I had a $700 Arai, which was too narrow no matter what I did with the foam inside. I have tried on Suomys and Sharks, and neither seems to fit me well either (though I dont remember how.)

    So - which is safer? An HJC that fits well and carries the same ratings (higher end HJC, if there is such a thing) and fits perfectly comfortably, or a spendy Arai that is uncomfortably tight but presumably made better?
    I always thought my HJC's fit me the best until i went to motomarket and got custom fit the right way. Fits better than any of my other helmets, there's so many variations on size, shape, padding. The fit and the type of helmet can both efffect the injuries in different ways, no way to tell specifics on what type of crash and what type of helmet or how bad the fit is. Best call would be good helmet good fit.

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    It's all water under the bridge, and we do enter the next round-robin. Am I wrong?

  3. #28
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kham View Post
    HJC is for round head people. HJC CL-14 - webBikeWorld

    i'll read these when i have time.

    Motorcycle Helmet FAQ - webBikeWorld

    note:
    "That issue contains a detailed article on an extensive test that was conducted on 16 different motorcycle helmets, ranging from the $89.00 Z1R (wBW review) to the $700.00 Schuberth S1 (wBW review). Their conclusion is that the inexpensive, polycarbonate shell Z1R transferred an average of 152Gs to the head-form, vs. 211Gs of the Snell-approved Scorpion EXO-700. "

    the lower the G the better i take it and "polycarbonate".

    Motorcycle Helmet Design, Helmet Standards and Head Protection - Gear Box - Motorcyclist Online


    G's are a measure of force...

    How do I explain... Fiberglass Crushes, dissapating the energy through the helmet

    Plastic deforms and then springs back into shape... Think about that for a minute.
    Your plastic helmet hits an object, it starts to deform and decelerate the cargo inside, said cargo (your head) hits the inside of the helmet and starts to decelerate (your head crushes and dissapates too, it doesn't deform and bonce back) then your brain hits the inside of you head... but it doesn't stop there! Because the plastic bounces back it then transmits that energy to your head, which then goes on to hit into the other side of the inside of your helmet and your brain hits the other side of the inside of your head.

    That "rebound effect" is what I believe to be the problem with plastic helmets.

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  4. #29
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Kham has simple mind
    Kham only need cheap helmet
    Humpty Dumpty. Splat!

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  5. #30
    I Dance With Will
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    check out some of these numbers. they're comparable.

    # Snell 2000/DOT Helmets

    Icon Mainframe (P)
    # Average: 181 Gs
    # LF: 168 gs
    # RF: 217 gs
    # LR: 189 gs
    # RR: 152 gs

    Icon Alliance (F)
    # Average: 183 Gs
    # LF: 179 gs
    # RF: 200 gs
    # LR: 179 gs
    # RR: 175 gs

    Scorpion EXO-400 (P)
    # Average: 187 Gs
    # LF: 185 gs
    # RF: 212 gs
    # LR: 193 gs
    # RR: 158 gs

    AGV X-R2 (F)
    # Average: 188 Gs
    # LF: 192 gs
    # RF: 226 gs
    # LR: 166 gs
    # RR: 167 gs

    Arai Tracker GT (F)
    # Average: 201 Gs
    # LF: 193 gs
    # RF: 243 gs
    # LR: 203 gs
    # RR: 166 gs

    HJC AC-11 (F)
    # Average: 204 Gs
    # LF: 195 gs
    # RF: 230 gs
    # LR: 231 gs
    # RR: 163 gs

    Scorpion EXO-700 (F)
    # Average: 211 Gs
    # LF: 207 gs
    # RF: 236 gs
    # LR: 226 gs
    # RR: 176 gs

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  6. #31
    Lifer
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    Kham = wrong
    rest of world = right

    someone needs a restraining order.
    conversation OVER!

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    It's all water under the bridge, and we do enter the next round-robin. Am I wrong?

  7. #32
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    Kham read my post about plastic bouncing back.

    It isn't so much the G's a helmet can take but the characteristics of how that helmet dissapates energy.

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  8. #33
    I Dance With Will
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    according to the article, it's not only the outer shell that absorbs the energy. the inner foam is also important and also used in composite or carbonate shell.

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  9. #34
    I Dance With Will
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    that G measure is the transfer from outer shell to your head.

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  10. #35
    Everybody to the limit!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    G's are a measure of force...

    How do I explain... Fiberglass Crushes, dissapating the energy through the helmet

    Plastic deforms and then springs back into shape... Think about that for a minute.
    Your plastic helmet hits an object, it starts to deform and decelerate the cargo inside, said cargo (your head) hits the inside of the helmet and starts to decelerate (your head crushes and dissapates too, it doesn't deform and bonce back) then your brain hits the inside of you head... but it doesn't stop there! Because the plastic bounces back it then transmits that energy to your head, which then goes on to hit into the other side of the inside of your helmet and your brain hits the other side of the inside of your head.

    That "rebound effect" is what I believe to be the problem with plastic helmets.
    Cite?

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  11. #36
    I Dance With Will
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    honcliff, help me out here. i know you believe the same thing.

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    Last edited by Kham; 11-08-07 at 05:59 PM.
    "fuckit!"

  12. #37
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    Like Peter said, this is the only thing that can not be taken back. I dont care what studies in labs say. Theres a reason a lot of people that do this for a living wear good helmets, and its not like a good helmet will be any WORSE than a cheap helmet. Why take the chance?

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  13. #38
    Full Tilt - Full Time Trackday Guru's Avatar
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    Why even take the chance? That's Peter's whole point.

    Your mellon is the only fruit that can't be "regrown".
    And I'd rather my mellon stay a fruit than turn into a vegetable because I was too cheap and tried to save a couple hundred bucks. Spend the money, don't be cheap when it comes to your head.

    If you don't have the money to invest in the appropriate gear your probably better off with another sport. Like shuffleboard. There's a lot less chance for injury, and who knows, you just might wind up thanking yourself for that decision one day.

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    Mike
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  14. #39
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honclfibr View Post
    Cite?
    My own Hypothesis.

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  15. #40
    Lifer reiobard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    G's are a measure of force...

    How do I explain... Fiberglass Crushes, dissapating the energy through the helmet

    Plastic deforms and then springs back into shape... Think about that for a minute.
    Your plastic helmet hits an object, it starts to deform and decelerate the cargo inside, said cargo (your head) hits the inside of the helmet and starts to decelerate (your head crushes and dissapates too, it doesn't deform and bonce back) then your brain hits the inside of you head... but it doesn't stop there! Because the plastic bounces back it then transmits that energy to your head, which then goes on to hit into the other side of the inside of your helmet and your brain hits the other side of the inside of your head.

    That "rebound effect" is what I believe to be the problem with plastic helmets.
    Let's put it into some simpler terms. The better helmets spread out the pressure on your head rather than just concentrating it on the point of impact which means that even though there may be more of these magical "G's", they are better dispersed uniformly around.

    example:

    I can jog face first into a wall at 6 Miles per hour and it would hurt

    I can also walk 3 miles per hour face first into another wall with a spike on it and even though there is less energy it would do a lot more damage

    Disclaimer: I do not walk into walls on any regular occation nor do i suggest that you do.

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    Last edited by reiobard; 11-08-07 at 04:12 PM.

  16. #41
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    6mph is bookin

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  17. #42
    Just Registered Wishbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reiobard View Post
    Disclaimer: I do not walk into walls on any regular occation nor do i suggest that you do.

    Yeah but you do run naked and backwards threw corn fields




    Kham if you really want to save money I can give you a HJC that will never be worn again

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  18. #43
    Fork oil in my veins.... gmdboston's Avatar
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    Read the article Kham quotes, it has some good and not so good info. Measuring G force absorption, how ever, is not the best way to correlate helmet effectiveness. Both sides of that article agree on that. I'll stick with what experience tells me. Like I said above, in 22 plus years of watching my friends crash and crashing my self, I've haven't seen any thing good come from polycarbonate shell helmets. So you guys can buy what ever you want. I'm not the one who has to be by your bed side feeding you pureed peas and carrots and reading you nursery rhymes. But rest assured, I will never, ever, ever, ever, wear a polycarbonate shell helmet, ever. Period. The end.

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  19. #44
    Just Registered Wishbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmdboston View Post
    This will be my only post on the subject.
    Liar

    And I like coloring books now, why would it be different?

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  20. #45
    Lifer reiobard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGitorio View Post
    6mph is bookin

    I fixed it for you, at 6 MPH I am now considering it Jogging or Yogging, it may be a soft J.

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  21. #46
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmdboston View Post
    Read the article Kham quotes, it has some good and not so good info. Measuring G force absorption, how ever, is not the best way to correlate helmet effectiveness. Both sides of that article agree on that. I'll stick with what experience tells me. Like I said above, in 22 plus years of watching my friends crash and crashing my self, I've haven't seen any thing good come from polycarbonate shell helmets. So you guys can buy what ever you want. I'm not the one who has to be by your bed side feeding you pureed peas and carrots and reading you nursery rhymes. But rest assured, I will never, ever, ever, ever, wear a polycarbonate shell helmet, ever. Period. The end.



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  22. #47
    JACKASS hammadown's Avatar
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    Heres a good LONG read from Motorcyclist a couple years ago. If its a repost, sorry, but it seemed appropriate.

    Motorcycle Helmet Design, Helmet Standards and Head Protection - Gear Box - Motorcyclist Online

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  23. #48
    I Dance With Will
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    understand that you will never ever see me in those little skull cap helmet. you gotta have little faith in your riding skill after all that yr experience. when the time comes, i don't think it matters for you. you could be struck by lightning.

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  24. #49
    I Dance With Will
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammadown View Post
    Heres a good LONG read from Motorcyclist a couple years ago. If its a repost, sorry, but it seemed appropriate.

    Motorcycle Helmet Design, Helmet Standards and Head Protection - Gear Box - Motorcyclist Online

    WTF? i posted this earlier.

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  25. #50
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kham View Post
    you could be struck by lightning.
    Yeah, but do you walk around in thunderstorms holding a fucking 20 foot metal pole? No... you don't, you reduce the risk.

    Wearing a full face instead of a skull cap reduces the risk of injury. Wearing a PROPER full face instead of a polycarbonate piece of shit reduces the risk further.

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