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HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

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    ain't nuttin wrong w/that scubasteveRR's Avatar
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    HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Not sure if this is already posted here but I think it is something that everyone wearing a helmet should read!

    http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html

    it's very long article with some replies and arguments at the end. Not to mention some g-force reading on some helmets!

    After reading this I question whether or not SNELL certified helmets are actually any better than DOT. In fact I think they may be worst for your noggin!

    ...unless you are a scientist who tests helmets for a living read this before you start making comments about how much better SNELL compared to DOT especially if you are in the Armed Forces.. and I quote from the article actual Military Standards for helmets...

    "Even our military disagrees with Snell on this. The U.S. Army Aeromedical Research Laboratory (USAARL) has created a g-tolerance standard for helicopter crewpersons' helmets. For a two-meter drop height, the same drop height we used in 3/4 of our testing, the Army allows no more than 150 gs to the earcup areas of the head, which they have determined are especially vulnerable, and no more than 175 gs on other areas. Should we motorcyclists—who are often older, not as fit, and not quite so willing to die or sustain head injuries as eager young soldiers—accept g tolerance levels of 300g for the same hits?"

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    Last edited by scubasteveRR; 05-29-09 at 11:06 AM.

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Congratulations on waking up from that coma.

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    Unsafe At Any Speeds Jim's Avatar
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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    waiting for a 4 paragraph response from Doc on helmet safety & blah blah blah

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    Post Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    link no worky

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by Honclfibr View Post
    Congratulations on waking up from that coma.
    Quote Originally Posted by DBKromz View Post
    waiting for a 4 paragraph response from Doc on helmet safety & blah blah blah
    Holy shit you guys are quick! Would love to hear what people "DOC" thinks about his. I am looking to get a new helmet and I was looking to get a SNELL because mine is only DOT.

    Quote Originally Posted by SP GSX-R View Post
    link no worky
    I edited it, i think i will work now... At least it did for me.

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    Last edited by scubasteveRR; 05-29-09 at 11:09 AM.

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    Post Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by scubasteveRR View Post



    I edited it, i think i will work now... At least it did for me.
    yup it works now

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Nothing good will ever come from this thread. This has got to be a 5 year old "debate" and I hate that article with a passion because of it.

    EVERY YEAR this article gets brought up... and EVERY YEAR a majority of experienced and knowledgable motorcyclists say they disagree with it, and a majority of unexperienced & unknowledgable motorcyclists take it as fact... and it turns into a huge pissing match of "facts" and "evidence" that NO one knows for certain whether or not it's all true.

    In theory, theory = practice.... but in practice, it's not... and the problem with "lab data" like what's found in that article is it's all theory. I'll take "REAL LIFE data" over lab data any day... and the "real life data" that I've seen over the years seems to be pointing me in the general direction of what helmets work & what helmets don't. I'll stick to my higher end lids, thank you (which more often than not have a SNELL rating).

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 05-29-09 at 11:37 AM.
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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Woops, didn't mean to repost or bring up a sore subject, Damn!

    Also not taking as fact!

    I was looking for some advice because I need a new helmet and after reading this article I am confused.

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    No worries. I know you didn't know it was a sore subject or a repost, otherwise you probably wouldn't have posted it

    Don't be confused... go to a few shops & try on as many lids as you can find.

    It's hard to do, but try & ignore the sticker price and just buy what fits you best cuz proper fit & feel is the most important thing in a helmet. You can buy the most expensive lid on the market, but if it doesn't fit your mellon it's not gonna offer you the kind of protection you would from a less expensive one that fits you like that perfect pair of sexy pants.

    Also, I recommend you stay away from polycarbonate shells (another highly debatable topic) and stick with composite. Look for words like fiberglass, carbon, kevlar, etc.

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 05-29-09 at 11:42 AM.
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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    ...fits you like that perfect pair of sexy pants.
    Pete all your pants are sexy pants

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by scubasteveRR View Post
    Woops, didn't mean to repost or bring up a sore subject, Damn!

    Also not taking as fact!

    I was looking for some advice because I need a new helmet and after reading this article I am confused.
    Here is my take on the article:

    http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/703433-post14.html

    I am an engineer, however my field is electronics so I am certainly not someone who tests helmets for a living. But FWIW, I have not found anyone who can refute my conclusions. I believe SNELL's response to the motorcyclist article comes to basically the same conclusion, if you care to read it:

    http://www.smf.org/articles/pdf/btlo...response_2.pdf

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    and it turns into a huge pissing match of "facts" and "evidence"
    Youre ugly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittenger5 View Post
    Youre ugly.

    Fact.

    Evidence?

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    that's not what new girl said.

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    that's not what new girl said.
    Only cause she was picturing me. And her name is New Chick, get it right you ungrateful douchecanoe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    It really pisses me off how Motorcyclist online can't keep the orriginal publishing date with their outdated articles.

    Buy a good helmet that fits properly. The propper fit is the most important thing for a helmet and the majority of people currently have a helmet that's too large for them.

    FYI - SNELL2010 is coming in the next Quarter.

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    Last edited by DuncanMoto; 05-29-09 at 11:56 AM. Reason: I still can't spell properly

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanMoto View Post
    Buy a good helmet that fits properly. The propper fit is the most important thing for a helmet and the majority of people currently have a helmet that's too large for them.

    And don't go buy a lame ass plastic HJC snowmobile helmet.

    I see so many people riding street bikes with snowmobile helmets

    But hey, it's only your squash. When I replace my RF-1000 I'm going for an Arai.

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder27 View Post
    And don't go buy a lame ass plastic HJC snowmobile helmet.

    I see so many people riding street bikes with snowmobile helmets

    But hey, it's only your squash. When I replace my RF-1000 I'm going for an Arai.
    As I recall, HJC snowmobile helmets were rebadged mottorcycle helmets with no-fog shields added. But this was back in the days of the AC-10, that might not be true any more.

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Don't be confused... go to a few shops & try on as many lids as you can find.
    i even tried Pete's helmet on a few times too, but it smelt like sweaty balls

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by Honclfibr View Post
    Here is my take on the article:

    http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/703433-post14.html

    I am an engineer, however my field is electronics so I am certainly not someone who tests helmets for a living. But FWIW, I have not found anyone who can refute my conclusions. I believe SNELL's response to the motorcyclist article comes to basically the same conclusion, if you care to read it:

    http://www.smf.org/articles/pdf/btlo...response_2.pdf

    I can see why no one can with in this argument...

    I myself went to Wentworth for Industrial Design engineering so I am not an idiot when it comes to designing things and with that said...

    I find your conclusion to be confusing because of the g-force readings the SNELL helmets listed at in the test... NOT SAYING YOU'RE WRONG JUST SAYING IT'S CONFUSING as is this whole topic!

    "as they are intended not to minimize the g forces imparted to the head in many/most impacts, but rather to minimize the impacts in which the g forces imparted to the head exceed the threshold for permanent brain injury/death."

    Then why did the SNELL helmet create more g-forces on the head during the test if you are correct they should have create LESS g-forces?? NO??



    I look at it in a much simpler way I guess... say you are jumping off a bridge 200ft in the air and there are 2 scenarios you can choose to fall into.

    Water or Concrete.. regardless, at 200ft both the water and the concrete are MOST LIKELY going to kill you (most likely, since I saw a show the other night when someone parachuting fell from a plane and didn't die when the chute didn't open and they fell hundreds of feet) but do you have more chance of surviving the jump into water or concrete. My bet is on the water.

    BTW... I did read SNELL response it was posted at the end of the article as well as the other after thoughts to the article and responses.

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    Last edited by scubasteveRR; 05-29-09 at 12:59 PM.

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Where's all the Shoei/Arai nuthugging and HJC/Icon bashing? Am I on the wrong forum?

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    Where's all the Shoei/Arai nuthugging and HJC/Icon bashing? Am I on the wrong forum?
    Apparently...

    nothing someone who is loyal to a product hates more than science that forces them to defend their loyalty....

    I thought the article broke some important ground and raised some very important questions...granted its a bit old now!

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    Last edited by DucDave; 05-29-09 at 01:07 PM.
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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    and to think many people don't even wear a helmet.....

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    Where's all the Shoei/Arai nuthugging and HJC/Icon bashing? Am I on the wrong forum?
    In the article they say that Shoei/Arai wouldn't return there call/letter for helmets to test?

    I myself am looking it to getting an Aria which didn't get tested.

    And there has been no bashing going on here, just trying to get the opinions of my peers and see what they think.

    I crashed with a DOT G-Max helmet on, didn't have any issues at all with concusions and what not and I was thinking jeez if the DOT saved my head then just imagine how much safer a SNELL helmet is, them wham. i read this article.

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    Re: HOLY HELMET INFO... is SNELL really all it's cracked up to be??

    Quote Originally Posted by DucDave View Post
    Apparently...

    nothing someone who is loyal to a product hates more than science that forces them to defend their loyalty....

    I thought the article broke some important ground and raised some very important questions...granted its a bit old now!

    MY EXACT REASON FOR POSTING THIS!!!

    look at how many people still think that evolution is a hoax??

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