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Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

  1. #1
    Member Crconnor18's Avatar
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    Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs


    I picked up a new enduro bike with 2 sets of wheels this weekend. I am curious if anyone has laced up motard rims on stock hubs? Is it worth doing in the garage or better to pay a professional? Unless someone is interested in a set of motocross wheels I donít want to buy another set of wheels for this bike and would like to use what I have already.

    The bike is an Ď01 640lc4 enduro.

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    LRRS AM #782
    2004 SV650 (Race/Track)
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    Awesomeness, Inc. MattR302's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    What's your plans for the second set of wheels? General street riding/commuting? Or track days? Are you planning on often swapping?

    I have multiple wheel setups for my DR650, and I did for my old DR350 as well. Originally I was going to do a SM setup on the 350, I had picked up a set of cast GS 17" wheels and was gathering the other necessary bits. Before I got around to that, I found a cheap second set of stock rims, put street-biased tires on those, and was more than content for general street riding. I even did a non-sportbike track day on it.

    My current DR650, I have a set of SM 17" rims for it. There are a few factors involved that don't make it a quick and easy swap:
    - Kickstand - stock kickstand is too long for the 17" wheels, the SM setup came with a shorter kickstand that I need to swap out.
    - Speedometer - stock speedometer is based off the 21" front wheel revolutions. Most often people swap to an aftermarket speedo (trailtech, etc), or I was able to buy an aftermarket DR650 speedo drive for the 17" wheel that works with the stock speedometer.
    - Gearing - My SM setup came with the stock size rear sprocket. I haven't put enough miles on it in SM mode to determine if I want to change gearing. But with different gearing for each setup, then you get into possibly needing a different length chain for each setup.
    - Brake rotor - My SM setup has a larger diameter front rotor. This needs a brake caliper relocation bracket, which isn't a quick bolt-on, need to remove the pads to install it.

    All that being said, if you're not planning on tracking it, and are often planning on swapping between street and dirt modes, start with just using street-biased tires on the stock rims. I like the Shinko 705's - cheap, pretty sticky (did the NSB TD on these), still ok to blast down gravel roads or across fields, and cheap.

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  3. #3
    Member Crconnor18's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    The set on the bike right now has a nearly toasted set of 705’s that I plan on replacing with some similar performance rubber. My KLR has the 705’s and they do well all around. I haven’t taken the KTM out for a spirited ride yet but it looks to have more power than the KLR’s 30hp which doesn’t say much.

    The 17’s would be for some track time and the occasional backroad the stock rotors on the 640’s are already 310 so it may not be worth getting the 320 & a bracket. I’ve read duke II wheels can be massaged to fit the LC4 front end which may be an option.

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    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    Thanks for buying that 640. I was over here considering another project my wife doesn't want me to have.

    No experience re-lacing for SM. I have re-laced a 19" MX wheel as the same. It was a test of patience. I'm sure the pros have it down and there is some trick I didn't/don't know. But I found it took a couple tries and a lot of trial and error. At the least you'll need a truing/balancing stand and a dial indicator to measure runout and such. A kit of proper spoke wrenches is super handy.
    Getting it close isn't so bad. Getting it good and true is. Lots of back and forth, try and retry. When I finally fitted the wheel up later I found it was a few mm out of center on the hub, laterally. My give-a-dam threshold had been exceeded and I left it as is/was and have been riding it ever since. Tire is a smidge closer to the chain than I'd like. But I wasn't going through that again.

    Also I was convinced to properly torque the spoke nuts. You'll need a special spoke wrench for this.

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    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    Re: Making a dual-sport go both ways with a motard swap. I've done this twice now. Once with a DRZ400S (dual-sport) and now again with a WR450F. The DRZ was relatively easy because there was a factory SM version. I used OE SM wheels. I was able to pick up a SM model speedo pickup and have an accurate speedo. Etc, etc. Even then I found some of this involved some customization. The biggest problem was a brake caliper adapter. Running the stock 2x0mm rotor on a SM setup is .. uh .. underwhelming. You want a big 3x0mm disk. So then you need a caliper relocation. Mine came with a 310mm disk which is standard on the factory DRZ-SM. But nobody goes for a 310mm aftermarket, everyone goes 320mm. Yes, it matters. So I had to find someone who made these custom, low production adapters for making the DRZ-S work with a 310mm rotor. Expect a lot of things to work this way, even with some factory support for what you are trying to do.

    With my WR450F it is even worse as there was no factory support. This is where aftermarket wheel kits are kind of nice. Many of the aftermarket hubs (ie the Talons I have) are setup to run on almost any bike. It's just a matter of getting the right bearing and spacer kits. Dubya USA can provide excellent support for this. Just call and ask for what you are trying to do.

    My biggest turnoff with making a dual-sport or enduro go both ways is the chain and gearing dance. You have to work hard to find gearing that works reasonably well in enduro mode on an 18" wheel AND works well on a 17" SM set without needing to change the chain lengthy. I found a reasonable compromise on my DRZ. But it was a compromise; gearing was always taller than I would have liked when in dirt mode. And it only worked on a fresh chain. Once the chain stretched I couldn't adjust enough.

    At this point in life I will never do this again. I'm constantly considering parting ways with the WR and going for something a bit more ADV/road worthy. If I do I'll never do this dual-sport/SM hybrid thing again.

    If anything I'd consider a sportsman setup; get the stickiest, most aggressive 21/18 tire setup and slap that on your spare wheels. Keep something knarly on the dirt wheels. With an 18/18 swap finding compromise gearing that works for both is easier. And you can still play with upsizing the brake rotor on the street set if you want.

    Or just buy/keep two (or more) bikes.

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  6. #6
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Crconnor18 View Post
    ..the stock rotors on the 640’s are already 310 so it may not be worth getting the 320 & a bracket.
    Are you sure? Interwebs sayz:

    Brakes – Front: single 300 mm disc with 2-piston calipers
    300 ain't bad tho..

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    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    You'll need rims, and the right length spokes. Personally, that's a job I'd let a shop handle as I just don't have the patience, or a truing stand, etc. Buchanan charges $112 a wheel to lace and true for example. You can buy spokes from KTM, use the 01 620 SM as the target, about $115 a wheel. Rims are roughly $200ea? Or, you can buy complete wheels for $450ea from KTM ready to bolt up. If you can score a deal on the parts, give it a try lacing yourself, just use the benchmark of $450ea as your no effort price to compare against.

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    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    Stock brakes on old lc4’s are not strong enough for track duty. Street SM duty, mayyyyybe.

    If it were me, I’d strip the hub to the shell, and send it to dubya, or the company of your choosing, and have them lace it to a 17. After chasing my tail getting my front re-laced on the 790, I’m about to do just that for the rear this winter.

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    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    Just checked, when Dubya rebuilt my RAD wheel set with new spokes, they were $125ea for the spoke kits, $80ea for labor, quick turn around, so a good option in my book as well.

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    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    There’s a place in pennsyltucky I think KSR wheels, that people have reported good experiences with as well.

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    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    OR!!!

    Winter is coming, mount some ice tires on your second set

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    I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief

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    Member Crconnor18's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    It’s looking more like a Big project for something that will just be so-so. I’ll just mount up the stickiest 21/18 tires on one set and maybe Shinko 805’s on the other and call it a day.


    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    OR!!!

    Winter is coming, mount some ice tires on your second set
    I’d consider it if I can find a place friendly to non “locals.” The bike will be fully plated and a NH OHV sticker to abide by local park rangers.

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  13. #13
    Awesomeness, Inc. MattR302's Avatar
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    Re: Lacing 17ís on Motocross hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Crconnor18 View Post
    It’s looking more like a Big project for something that will just be so-so. I’ll just mount up the stickiest 21/18 tires on one set and maybe Shinko 805’s on the other and call it a day.
    Definitely the way to go for cost and ease of swaps.

    If you find you want a little better road manners, you can have a 19” front laced and there’s a bunch of tire options for 110/80/19 size. This is actually my usual setup for my DR650 (19” front / stock rear). Stock kickstand is a little tall but not too tall. Speedometer isn’t off nearly as much as it would be with a 17” front.

    I’ve found tire shopping on Revzilla’s site is great for this situation because you can add two different tire sizes to filter to see what matched sets are available.

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