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The lovely engine break in debate

  1. #1
    Lifer Billy's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

    So if you don't ride your bike hard the first 20 miles, you can count on your piston rings not being seated properly.


    From what I understand, all new egines are dyno'd at the plant before it's shipped so technically it's already done before it even reaches the dealership?

    Interesting read though!

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  2. #2
    GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! capt1014's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    I don't know,

    Some people say break in, some people don't. I really don't see what fighting is about.

    Just ride it and shut the fuck up! Right?

    It's not like you are going to blow the engine if you don't break it in, are you? anymore than you would riding the shit out of it on the street.

    .0001 change in valley to peak of the grooves in the cylinder wall is not going to kill it not to mention WHEN they change?

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    Satans Donkey Uncle Snake's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    All engines are NOT dyno'd prior to shipment. Really. Regards, Jake



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  4. #4
    No Post Count Lurker RGVER's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    In an english bike mag they tested CBR9's that had been beaten from day 1 and bikes broken in according to the rules and the thrashed bikes made up to 12 hp more, only one properly broken in bike beat the lowest scoring beaten bike.

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  5. #5
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Originally posted by RGVER
    In an english bike mag they tested CBR9's that had been beaten from day 1 and bikes broken in according to the rules and the thrashed bikes made up to 12 hp more, only one properly broken in bike beat the lowest scoring beaten bike.
    that's not a practical test though... lets see where those bikes are at 10-20k miles later.

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  6. #6
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    I can see an engine that is run in agressively having a few more peak ponies, but I've also heard, that an engine runs best just before it's going to blow

    I broke my SV in per the OM more or less, its starting to use enuf oil to annoy me now, next time it goes in for service, it's getting compression & leakdown test,

    my guess is valve seals are worn, and maybe valve guides

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  7. #7
    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Originally posted by RandyO
    I can see an engine that is run in agressively having a few more peak ponies, but I've also heard, that an engine runs best just before it's going to blow

    I broke my SV in per the OM more or less, its starting to use enuf oil to annoy me now, next time it goes in for service, it's getting compression & leakdown test,

    my guess is valve seals are worn, and maybe valve guides
    Burning oil ALREADY??? What the fuck??? You've only got what? 150,000 miles on it?

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  8. #8
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    I love breaking in motors and I do it at least once a year. Here's my take:

    Don't BEAT on it by over-revving especially on de-cel. The mototune guy is right, but he never says to beat on it. Do let it warm up before any loading, and do lots of agressive roll-ons under varying conditions. Increase rev ceiling from 60-80-90 percent of redline during first three heat cycles. Hilly terrain is good (the racetrack is perfect!). No top speed runs or highway cruising.

    I just broke in a fresh built motor on my mini and there was a very noticeable change in performance after 100 or so miles of aggressive acceleration.

    I'm sure it would have happened sooner or later under normal conditions, but I beleive this is the quickest way to get good ring sealing, which ultimately determines compression and that last bit of HP.

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  9. #9
    Lifer richw's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    I used mototune breakin almost exact on my gixer

    on off on off on off. changed oil at 50, 150, 650 and 1500 conventional went to synthetic at 2600.

    Power ... who knows with a Gixer 1K has done power wheelies in fourth but of course that is at about 140 MPH.

    Absolutely has not burned a single drop of oil in 8500 miles... not one. Tail pipe is clean, clean

    The other thing absolute I definitely will tell anyone is change your oil within 100 miles of new. What came out of 3 vehicles so far all look like metal flake paint there was so much shavings etc in it it sparkles in the sun.... Cars bikes boats tractors it all needs it.

    My last Yamaha broke in right started burning oil from day 1 at 1 qt every 700 when I bitched they said that was within specs....f*cktards

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  10. #10
    Lifer Karaya One's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Originally posted by richw
    My last Yamaha broke in right started burning oil from day 1 at 1 qt every 700 when I bitched they said that was within specs....f*cktards
    Doesn't BMW have an acceptable oil burn spec for the K motors and Boxers? Doesn't make it right , but I always wondered why buring a quart or so every 1000 miles is "acceptable".

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  11. #11
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Originally posted by Paul_E_D
    I love breaking in motors and I do it at least once a year. Here's my take:

    Don't BEAT on it by over-revving especially on de-cel. The mototune guy is right, but he never says to beat on it. Do let it warm up before any loading, and do lots of agressive roll-ons under varying conditions. Increase rev ceiling from 60-80-90 percent of redline during first three heat cycles. Hilly terrain is good (the racetrack is perfect!). No top speed runs or highway cruising.

    I just broke in a fresh built motor on my mini and there was a very noticeable change in performance after 100 or so miles of aggressive acceleration.

    I'm sure it would have happened sooner or later under normal conditions, but I beleive this is the quickest way to get good ring sealing, which ultimately determines compression and that last bit of HP.
    If you a talking about a mini cooper, that's not a good comparison to a motorcycle engine. All better cars (Bosch) have computers that change the mappings based on milage, with the most aggressive changes if not all of them made between 0 and 10k miles. They handle the break in for you. Also, most car computer systems use learning filters that have about 100 mile lags on them that change mappings again based on how you are driving the car. Also, a motorcycle engine pound for pound is a much higher performace beast compared to a car engine and has bery different design trade offs with respect to materials, weight and so on.

    As for break in, I think you should follow what ever directions they give you. It's usually only like 600 miles, it's a small price.

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  12. #12
    Fork oil in my veins.... gmdboston's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Originally posted by Paul_E_D
    I love breaking in motors and I do it at least once a year. Here's my take:

    Don't BEAT on it by over-revving especially on de-cel. The mototune guy is right, but he never says to beat on it. Do let it warm up before any loading, and do lots of agressive roll-ons under varying conditions. Increase rev ceiling from 60-80-90 percent of redline during first three heat cycles. Hilly terrain is good (the racetrack is perfect!). No top speed runs or highway cruising.

    I just broke in a fresh built motor on my mini and there was a very noticeable change in performance after 100 or so miles of aggressive acceleration.

    I'm sure it would have happened sooner or later under normal conditions, but I beleive this is the quickest way to get good ring sealing, which ultimately determines compression and that last bit of HP.
    Having broken in and rebuilt a few myself (several dozen actually) that is the best way to break in a motor. I do 4-5 heat cycles by bliping the throttle and letting it idle at the shop. Then I spend one Friday practice day doing exactly what Paul said. Full throttle loads at increasing RPMs. Change the oil on Friday night and then ride it like you hate it in Saturday, no mercy.....

    Modern machining techniques are so good that all you need to do is seat the rings. The gears will mate very quickly, like within a few miles. That is where the metal flakes come from. Wait on the synthetic until after a few hundred or a thousand or so miles and enjoy. If you are looking for that last few horse power, you'll be cutting the valve seats, replacing the rings and rod and main bearings every week end. Oh and running a low pressure oil pump, using 0wt oil, that's right zero weight oil, a thinner head gasket, slightly longer rods, pistons with the wrist pin bores slightly too high, no oil ring, engine cases that are just inside the tolerence range, thin cylinders, thin head, surface discharge plugs.....that's all can say, if give out any more secrets, I'll have to kill the internet.

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  13. #13
    Littering and........
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Doesn't synthetic oil get your sister pregnant?

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  14. #14
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Originally posted by highsider
    Doesn't synthetic oil get your sister pregnant?
    It helps reduce the friction of the initial penetration.

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  15. #15

    The lovely engine break in debate

    50 miles up and down thru the RPM's, change the oil, BEAT THE SNOT OUT OF IT!!!!

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  16. #16
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Originally posted by richw
    I used mototune breakin almost exact on my gixer

    on off on off on off. changed oil at 50, 150, 650 and 1500 conventional went to synthetic at 2600.

    Power ... who knows with a Gixer 1K has done power wheelies in fourth but of course that is at about 140 MPH.

    Absolutely has not burned a single drop of oil in 8500 miles... not one. Tail pipe is clean, clean


    8500 miles the bikes not even broke in yet

    transmission requires more breakin than engine

    my seat of pants dyno tells me on my SV, I had power gains up untill 25k miles when it finally felt like it was broke in, never burned a drop of oil till it had over 75k

    smoke on startup now @ 135k that's why I'm thinking valve seals

    will your engine last that long?

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  17. #17
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    I know that at 51,000, I do not have a lot of miles on my 2001 9R but it runs like new. It was broken in pretty much the "mototune way" Lot's of heat cycles, lots of speed changes, gradually increased power demands as the number heat cycles built up, never run hard cold, lots of oil changes and after 10,000 miles or so I went to full synthetic.

    At the plant in Lincoln Nebraska, Kawasaki motorcycles are revved to the redline in all 6 gears, while stone cold and brand new, on a chassis dyno. The oil is immediately drained into a big tank and re-used for the next bike. Saw similar treatment at the BMW car factory in Spartanburg SC.

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  18. #18
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Originally posted by ultraTwist
    If you a talking about a mini cooper, that's not a good comparison to a motorcycle engine. All better cars (Bosch) have computers that change the mappings based on milage, with the most aggressive changes if not all of them made between 0 and 10k miles. They handle the break in for you. Also, most car computer systems use learning filters that have about 100 mile lags on them that change mappings again based on how you are driving the car. Also, a motorcycle engine pound for pound is a much higher performace beast compared to a car engine and has bery different design trade offs with respect to materials, weight and so on.

    As for break in, I think you should follow what ever directions they give you. It's usually only like 600 miles, it's a small price.
    Wow, they can control how you drive too?! That's amazing.

    The engine management just richens the mix while the car is new. That helps, but it's not the same thing as what we are discussing.

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  19. #19
    Lifer richw's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Well I am spoiled and usually turn over bikes when they have in the mid 20K.

    The other guys are correct and there could be all kinds of mischief hidden in the ECU to limit power for so long etc.

    Randy I bet you could get a wrecked parts bike and just a motor swap almost cheaper then paid engine work..

    no end of usable goodies for the long distance rider. shock, tires wheels,, odometer with fresh bearings

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  20. #20
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    Originally posted by richw
    Well I am spoiled and usually turn over bikes when they have in the mid 20K.

    The other guys are correct and there could be all kinds of mischief hidden in the ECU to limit power for so long etc.

    Randy I bet you could get a wrecked parts bike and just a motor swap almost cheaper then paid engine work..

    no end of usable goodies for the long distance rider. shock, tires wheels,, odometer with fresh bearings
    no doubt I could get a used engine much cheaper than rebuilding

    but how do I know the #1 important thing

    was it wheelied... wheelies severely reduce the life of the SV engine, known FACT, as soon as the front wheel is lofted, the engine is starving for oil

    if the bike is wrecked, then IMHO, it's been abused

    nor do I want a used engine from something that has been babied, that's worse abuse than abuse

    cost per mile, over the long haul, repair & replace with new parts

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  21. #21
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    The lovely engine break in debate

    The owner's manual for my Durango recommends "brief full-throttle acceleration" and limited highway driving during the break-in period, and I complied. It now has 104,000 hard miles (we use it almost exclusively for boat towing, originally with a 2000 lb. load, then a 4300 lb. load and now a 7000 lb. load) and it runs fine.

    I think the key driving habits that lead to engine longevity, break-in miles or otherwise, is to not bog the engine ever, and not run it hard when cold. I have never worn out an automotive or motorcycle engine, my cars always rust out first and my bikes tend to be crashed or sold. My two current bikes have 155,000 miles between them.

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