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Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

  1. #126
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry


    What is the Pirate Culture? This is the first time I have heard that term. Please, enlighten me.

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  2. #127
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboyrider View Post
    What is the Pirate Culture? This is the first time I have heard that term. Please, enlighten me.
    It's something along the lines of a joke that a lot of Harley riders dress as if they are going to a costume party dressed as pirates, rather than to prepare for crashing the bike.

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  3. #128
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry


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  4. #129
    Lifer ilikenapalm's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    I'd like to meet the kid that graduates with only 30k in debt. The single student.
    I graduated with 18k in debt. Lived on campus freshman and sophomore years, off campus junior year, and commuted senior year while living at home.

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  5. #130
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    While not "only" 30k, I graduated with less than 1-year's tuition of debt (less than $50k). I was fortunate to have some academic scholarships, but more so relied on financial aid from my University. Otherwise, I would have assuredly been going to school in-state, where tuition was much cheaper.

    Contrast this with the handful of students I know who went to school out of state, just to "get away from home," and subsequently pursued generic degrees like business and marketing while paying $50k+ / year out of pocket.

    All for that little taste of freedom and getting "out on your own." I'm not even talking about kids whose parents footed the bill, I legitimately know at least 5 people who ended up 6 figures in debt for utterly no other reason than wanting to get away.

    Somewhat back on topic though, "millennial" in general are driving less, let alone riding. Your average millennial these days are moving to the city so they don't have to own transportation and are perfectly OK with that. I see this however as a PRO for motorcycling, as they don't rely on a car / bike for primary transport. Makes more sense to own a bike to get out of town when you want versus a car that costs more and can't be (somewhat) as easily stored for winter.

    Once electric bikes become legitimate contenders (we aren't far off), I see this trend as a huge opportunity for motorcycle manufacturers. Much easier to bring in a battery-powered "appliance" into your living area than something filled with gas and oil.

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    Last edited by scottieducati; 07-24-17 at 02:44 PM.

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  6. #131
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    Somewhat back on topic though, "millennial" in general are driving less, let alone riding. Your average millennial these days are moving to the city so they don't have to own transportation and are perfectly OK with that. I see this however as a PRO for motorcycling, as they don't rely on a car / bike for primary transport.
    I see it as the death of motorcycling. They're going to be the driving force behind autonomous vehicles and subsequently no one owning their own car. Once this his critical mass, driving on your own will be outlawed, including bikes.

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  7. #132
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    I see it as the death of motorcycling. They're going to be the driving force behind autonomous vehicles and subsequently no one owning their own car. Once this his critical mass, driving on your own will be outlawed, including bikes.
    Why would they need to outlaw bikes though? If electric are going to be blurring the line between bicycles and motorcycles, you are assuredly going to have lots of pedestrians and bicyclists on the roads. I'd rather ride a motorcycle amongst predictable, autonomous vehicles than with people behind the wheel and imagine the future of electrics being part bicycle, part motorcycle.

    I surely don't doubt the validity of your scenario, but I do have hope that we will eventually begin to separate transportation as a "need" (commuting) from those who enjoy driving or riding. Even lots of urban-dwelling millennials still lust after performance cars and motorcycles, because they are for pleasure. Not practicality. Whenever I hear about people singing the death-knells of cars and driving, I remember that cars and accessories, etc. purely for enthusiasts is a multi-BILLION dollar industry. Americans still love their cars, very much so.

    Admittedly, it'll be a tough fight to keep our "rights" as motorcyclists... but I honestly see absolutely no scenario in our lifetime where we won't be able to ride on roads. Maybe not urban centers, but country roads? Gonna be plenty of room out there for anyone who wants to be there when everyone's moving to the city.

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    Last edited by scottieducati; 07-24-17 at 03:10 PM.

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  8. #133
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    Contrast this with the handful of students I know who went to school out of state, just to "get away from home," and subsequently pursued generic degrees like business and marketing while paying $50k+ / year out of pocket.

    All for that little taste of freedom and getting "out on your own." I'm not even talking about kids whose parents footed the bill, I legitimately know at least 5 people who ended up 6 figures in debt for utterly no other reason than wanting to get away.
    I don't really remember there being much overall social discussion/tone/impression about considering the total costs for how much money was spent on school. I've seen people somewhat directing the blame on these decisions towards the graduate, but their parents were still likely cosigning the loans. And for some, school choice is nearly a decision made as a minor. I'd hope a lot of the press about school debt has caused a shift. Fortunately I had someone telling me not to make poor financial decisions, and I passed on a more expensive school because of it. When touring some of those schools, at least two I remember focusing heavily on the 'experience' and the campus life. They were selling a life style and an image with greater priority than the degree, staff, and career opportunities. And I definitely knew people who were in search of 'anywhere but here'.

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  9. #134
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    as this thread is already kinda

    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    I'd rather ride a motorcycle amongst predictable, autonomous vehicles than with people behind the wheel and imagine the future of electrics being part bicycle, part motorcycle.
    Your comment reminded me of one of the best technological advancements i've read about recently, V2V / B2V(Vehicle 2 Vehicle communication) for motorcycle safety:



    Bosch Is Developing V2V Communication Tech for Motorcycles - The Drive

    This technology could be extremely advantageous to motorcyclists, for whom visibility is a big issue. Far too many motorcycle accidents occur as a result of a driver in a car not seeing them. A V2V system on a motorcycle that communicates with V2V-equipped cars can emit a notification saying something to the effect of, “Hey, there’s a motorcycle nearby. Don’t hit it.
    Obviously not perfect and still a ways off, hopefully a retro-fit kit for old/current bikes is in the works.

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  10. #135
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    They were selling a life style and an image with greater priority than the degree, staff, and career opportunities. And I definitely knew people who were in search of 'anywhere but here'.
    Much like some motorcycle companies, by the sounds of it. If I weren't such an uneducated fool I'd say that's what people are probably buying, or think they're buying.

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  11. #136
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    It's nice to have graduated with a BS in Computer Science with $147 debt. Thank you Post-911 GI Bill.

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  12. #137
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Much like some motorcycle companies, by the sounds of it. If I weren't such an uneducated fool I'd say that's what people are probably buying, or think they're buying.
    Ha, I'm surprised I didn't catch that. I wonder if HD could go further with trying to be more of how I perceive Triumph was in the 60's. Closer to the alcoholic writer/artist wandering the country in search of life experiences. Still a rugged individualist, but less BDSM angle.

    I sometimes wonder if there will be a reactionary swing in current social trends, where city living, nightlife, and instagram moments become too mainstream for their own good and people strive for some opposite version. The lumberjack hipster was kind of a version of that - and they're the stereotype who was buying up 80's Japaneses bikes to chop up.

    Talking in stereotypes and trends has meaning... but it just feels so.... Business Insider: Top 10 Millennial Trends :vomit:

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  13. #138
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Lemma 1: If the motorcycle industry were dying, new bike prices wouldn't be increasing so fast.
    Argument sketch: If they're still pricing bikes at $15k+ it's because people are buying them.

    Lemma 2: New bike prices are so high because the motorcycle industry is dying.
    Argument sketch: Only older people with money are still buying bikes.

    Lemma 3: Millennial attitudes toward motorcycles are a harbinger for the motorcycle industry as a whole.
    Argument sketch: Children are the future!

    Lemma 4: Millennial attitudes toward motorcycles mean @#$%-all to the motorcycle industry.
    Argument sketch: A very small percentage of the total population buys/rides a motorcycle. There's more growth to be made from getting every current motorcyclist (whatever their age) to convince 1-2 friends to buy a bike than there is in targeting any particular age demographic. Motorcycling is tribal/hereditary!

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  14. #139
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by feralchimp View Post
    A very small percentage of the total population buys/rides a motorcycle. There's more growth to be made from getting every current motorcyclist (whatever their age) to convince 1-2 friends to buy a bike than there is in targeting any particular age demographic. Motorcycling is tribal/hereditary!
    BING-O!

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  15. #140
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    If every current owner convinced one non riding friend to accumulate bikes like Carsick we could end world hunger or something

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  16. #141
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    3 packs!

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  17. #142
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Aw shucks, glad I could be there for the "If you think I'm bad you should see Doug"
    If any non-riding friends need a bike, let me know
    As an aside, today the UPS guy took notice of my harem and asked where I ride dirt. Turns out, he has a KDX200! I should sell him an SV, or give him a set of ice tires at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    3 packs!
    Almost, there is a WR400, WR426, WR450, and YZ450 here. Need to reassemble the KDX200 to go with the KDX220.

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    Last edited by carsick; 07-25-17 at 10:30 PM.
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  18. #143
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by feralchimp View Post
    //There's more growth to be made from getting every current motorcyclist (whatever their age) to convince 1-2 friends to buy a bike than there is in targeting any particular age demographic. Motorcycling is tribal/hereditary!
    My wife has her license and my 17yo daughter is going to BRC soon. Two to go.....

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  19. #144
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    My ladyfriend took the BRC and I got a Grom for her to re-learn the controls on. Once she's good on that, some garage-shuffling shenanigans will be in order.

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  20. #145
    What's updog? curiouser's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Here's an article on the NH-focused "Stay Work Play" blog about a millennial who just got into motorcycling. Cut to the chase, she got into it because she grew up riding on the back of her dad's bike. Still a good, quick read: Live Free or Ride: How This Biker Babe Came to Favor the Yellow Line - Stay Work Play New Hampshire

    Another possibility is that younger people are more attuned to how distracted drivers are out there, since they themselves are participants. They might not want the extra exposure of being without a steel perimeter frame and 46 airbags surrounding them. Whenever the topic of two wheels comes about with my friends, even the gearheads, it inevitably goes to "yeah, but there are so many bad drivers out there". I then bring up track days, but that is a slightly different animal and doesn't even appeal to a majority of motorcyclists. It also requires significant investment in accessories, towing equipment, and costs just to attend.

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  21. #146
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by curiouser View Post
    Whenever the topic of two wheels comes about with my friends, even the gearheads, it inevitably goes to "yeah, but there are so many bad drivers out there". I then bring up track days, but that is a slightly different animal and doesn't even appeal to a majority of motorcyclists. It also requires significant investment in accessories, towing equipment, and costs just to attend.
    It's arguably a misconception of risk, and part of a greater issue with regular access to global news where people suddenly feel that everything has become more dangerous or more frequent when it typically hasn't. Granted, drivers are still a major hazard for motorcyclists and I usually try to explain to people that there are ways to mitigate some of it. They're usually operating on a strong perception that murdercycles are death machines created in part by hollywood stunt riders, youtube, and darwin examples, so it's an uphill battle.

    If you can't sell them on track days, try dirt bikes. If that doesn't work, try pitching mountain bikes. Then they're at least one step closer

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  22. #147
    Senior Member catahoulabuldog's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Riddle me this...

    Global dilemma? or U.S. only problem?

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  23. #148
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by catahoulabuldog View Post
    Riddle me this...

    Global dilemma? or U.S. only problem?
    riddle me this, what exactly you asking about? millennials, pirate culture, get off my lawn, or the blanket groupings of people based on x, y, or z?

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  24. #149
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by catahoulabuldog View Post
    Riddle me this...

    Global dilemma? or U.S. only problem?
    World Motorcycles - Market Size, Market Share, Market Leaders, Demand Forecast, Sales, Company Profiles, Market Research, Industry Trends and Companies

    I'm not purchasing the study, but as I suspected, global sales are increasing.

    There are a bazillion reasons, but the US market is different in many respects;

    lot's of open space with interstate highways = demand for bigger, highway capable motorcycles.

    poor governmental and cultural support for motorcycling as transportation in urban areas = relatively low demand for commuter motorcycles/scooters.

    the US has an essentially stable economic infrastructure as opposed to poorer nations where cars are truly affordable to many, many people and small motorcycles/scooters are normal family transportation.

    With the sole exception of HD, we often fail to remember that the US is essentially an irrelevant market to the rest of the manufacturers. We're a bit like the Galapagos islands of motorcycle demand, the demand is there, but it has evolved differently in many respects compared to the rest of the world.

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  25. #150
    Senior Member catahoulabuldog's Avatar
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    Re: Millenials and the so-called dying motorcycle industry

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    riddle me this, what exactly you asking about? millennials, pirate culture, get off my lawn, or the blanket groupings of people based on x, y, or z?
    lol sooooooo many things in that one line....... but,

    is the so called dying motorcycle industry a global issue? or a U.S. specific one?

    looks like Steve answered... and as I suspected Global sales ARE increasing while U.S. sales decline?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    he also brings up some great points. but ill switch his answer order around.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    There are a bazillion reasons, but the US market is different in many respects
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    With the sole exception of HD, we often fail to remember that the US is essentially an irrelevant market to the rest of the manufacturers. We're a bit like the Galapagos islands of motorcycle demand, the demand is there, but it has evolved differently in many respects compared to the rest of the world.
    Im on the fence with this. MANY manufactures have grown machines to U.S. specific wants, the resurgent Triumph and even Ducati have developed products specifically to open up the stagnant U.S. market IE: cruisers and FARKLE machines.


    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    lot's of open space with interstate highways = demand for bigger, highway capable motorcycles.
    What about this has changed recently? did America suddenly grow? That answer as well know is no. population yes, geographical area no.

    so that leads to 2 statements that I believe to be true and tied together.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    the US has an essentially stable economic infrastructure as opposed to poorer nations where cars are truly affordable to many, many people and small motorcycles/scooters are normal family transportation.
    AND
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    poor governmental and cultural support for motorcycling as transportation in urban areas = relatively low demand for commuter motorcycles/scooters.
    So, in a nutshell... due to the culture shift and economic ability to support more expensive transportation motorcycles are now an obsolete tool relegated to recreational only use by those who can afford them.

    I think Steve solved it. the U.S. motorcycle market and Milenials both suffer from #firstworldproblems

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