Motorcycle Injuries and Deaths Stats??

[HBerry]

OK so basically my mom and several of my friends from school are attempting to convince me that a motorcycle is a death trap. Of course it has its inherient (sp?) dangers but so does walking down the street.

I was wondering if anyone had any website or fact sheet on motorcycle injuries and deaths as oppossed to other things in life.

Also my mother for some strange reason (likely the fact that her friends with bikes all have H.D.'s) got the idea in her head that a harley is safer because there is "more there". So she feels if I buy a bike that I should be getting a harley not a sport bike.

Thanks In Advance

[Ducrappy]

the only thing that makes an HD safer than a sport bike is the fact that they suck in the twisties so you only drive them on long straight roads. You can't very well lowside a bike if you barely turn. The fact that there is "more there" means there is more crap that can kill you in an accident. What if you fall and you end up under the bike? At least you have a chance to get out form under a sportbike weighing only 400 lbs or so. HD's on the other hand weigh somewhere between 500 and 700 lbs. Try moving that off of yourself.

[bigred875]

It is all about educating yourself and your mother. I would say that HD are less safe because they are sluggish and underpowered. You may not be able to get out of the if something happens...it is 50's technology...

Also gear is an important factor....Got to wear your gear..

I would guess that any report, poll or statistics you find will be more suited to back up your mothers claims..so I would not go that route.

They will lump all MC wrecks and deaths into the numbers...from the 18yr/old squid that crashes doing 80 in a 35 without a helmet, to the 50yr/old guys with 30 yeas exp. and full gear that gots rearended at a light...


If you want to be a smartass ask her how many people die in car accidents in a year.....

A hell of a lot more then those that die in MC crashes.

You can also tell her that most MC accidents and deaths are single vechile crashes...usually meaning rider error. And that you will be taking the MSF, getting the right gear and so on and so forth so you will be educated and more prepared for the road...ur sumpin like that....

[VinceF2]

H...

I don't have any hard statisics... only my own thoughts on motorcycles and safety. Read em if ya want... here they are...

Riding a motorcycle, in my opinion, can never be deamed "safe" since to me "safe" implies there is no danger. Which as all of us in the riding community know is not the case. There has to be a certain amount of accepted risk involved in motorcycling. All we can do is take any and all steps possible to minimize that risk. First things first is don't buy the bike if you can't buy the proper gear to ride it with... No gear will save you from everything, but again this is to minimize risk... Second... MSF MSF MSF... take the safety course... pay attention... practice what they teach you before even thinking about merging into traffic... Third... ride defensively and responsibly... the street is not a race track... or a stunt show... we have race tracks and stunt shows for that... We all know a "Gixxa" can do a buck fitty... you don't need to show us thanks...

I don't know you at all... and I am not bashing you with this post... but my guess is you are young, and perhaps at times feel invinsible? Heck I know I did when I was in my late teens / early 20's... Point is... you aren't... just know that up front... Riding a motorcycle can kill you... We can never remove all the risks... but the level of safety is up to the rider... and the rider alone...

Good luck...

Mike

[benVFR]

The best safety stat is to tell her the % of fatal crashes that involve:

a) A Drunk rider
b) An unlicensed rider
c) A rider who has not taken MSF & other training
d) A rider who was not wearing a helmet & other gear

A significant % of fatalities fall into at least one of those 4 categories. Something like 50% or more.

There is no real correlation between age, type of bike, and likelihood of killing yourself. The 16-23 age group used to be over represented, but the last few years the 40+ age group has done a lot of catching up as more and more rusty riders buy huge cruisers without the training or experience to ride them safely.

Based on limited cruiser riding, I think a cruiser puts you at a disadvantage if you make the decision to swerve around an obstacle, but there is nothing about the cruiser style of bike that keeps the bike from having excellent emergency braking ability. Almost all bikes have more braking capability than the rider can use, you have to practice emergency braking regularly.

A lot of cruisers supposedly do have bad brakes, especially Harleys, but the latest Harleys and other cruisers have good brakes, and due to their wheelbase & weight distribution they can often beat a sportbike for a single emergency stop. The sportbike only brakes better in a racetrack situation that involves repeated braking from very high speed.

Most safety literature says using acceleration to avoid an accident is not commonly needed. We all have situations where it is nice to acclerate away from traffic, but in a true emergency you are usually better off reducing your speed rather than increasing it. And Harleys will still accelerate faster than almost all cars.

Ben

[VinceF2]

Originally posted by benSV
...A lot of cruisers supposedly do have bad brakes, especially Harleys, but the latest Harleys and other cruisers have good brakes, and due to their wheelbase & weight distribution they can often beat a sportbike for a single emergency stop...

My Dad's 2002 Heritage Softail Classic has a single disk in the front... couldn't believe that when I saw it... that is a heavy bike for just a single disk... IMO of course... since I don't know the engineering behind it... I do know that he and I were traveling on Route 2 together... prolly about 70mph... and traffic came to a stop because a car flipped over... I was leading... and neither one of us noticed right away that traffic was stopping... I initiated my panic stop as did he... and my heart dropped as he went flying by me in a down shifting frenzy.... He tells me he was on the brakes hard... etc... and has ridden bikes for 30 + years... so he's not a newbie... He was a little rattled by that though... Heck the little sportser has a dual disk!!!

Anywho... that's my story... I wouldn't say a Harley is a safer bike I guess is my point...

[benVFR]

Wow... I'm surprised an 02 has only one disc in the front.

Some cruisers definitely do fine on braking though. MCN has the Victory V92 listed at 117ft. The Gixxer 1000 did 122ft in their test. It's not the style of bike, just how good the brakes are on a particular example.

The new Sporster has twin Nissin Discs in the front. How is that for made in America.

Ben

[VinceF2]

Exactly Ben... my Uncle got an 04' Sportster... first thing I noticed... half the weight and double the braking power!!!

I wonder if there is a way to upgrade to a dual disk... hmmm

[HBerry]

OK heres my deal for all that don't know

I just today bought a ZX-6R.

I have already learned I am not invincible from driving a car and thinking that and getting fugged for it so I am very cautious now. Secondly I have signed up for the MSF and will be taking it in August and do not plan on doing any hard core riding before then. Thirdly I am going to buy all the gear that I need including helmet (already have new one) jacket, gloves (got em today too) pants and boots.

I guess I will just have to show them that I am safe and have the gear and took the class ect.

[hohum]

Vince, my Dad has the same bike, and he went with a larger front rotor, a Brembo caliper (big bux) and stainless lines. Made all the difference in the world in how that bike hauled down.

Cheers,
Chris

PS - I looked for a way to dual rotor the front of his bike and kinda worked out some OEM Harley parts that would work but he would have none of me "hacking" on his bike.

[elaineo]

Originally posted by HBerry
OK heres my deal for all that don't know

I just today bought a ZX-6R.

i mean... congratulations

[benVFR]

Congrats on the new bike... be careful.

The problem is when you start to not be scared of it...

Your confidence will improve faster than your skills.

I found a MCN brake test of the Heritage Softail... must be an error cause it said 126ft which wouldn't be long enough to make the bike feel bad. The comment said horrible brakes though.

Ben

[Tarmac]

Invite your mom/dad to take MSF with you. Educating the wary about bikes is way difficult. It's much easier if you get them involved, then at least you can better understand each other.

No doubt about it, motorcycles are inherently dangerous. But that doesn't mean every story ends in disaster. Carefull about what the medical people say...they only witness the failures of riding, not the successes.

Evaluating safety of a cruiser vs sportbike is pretty much irrelevant...it's far more often the rider, not the bike. That being said, of course the braking distance between a high end sportbike and single rotor hog will be different...but so will the time it takes for each to reach a dangerous velocity.

You can read all the brake distance stats, but that's under ideal conditions and the rider was "forwarned" he needed to brake at a pre-determined spot....that won't happen much during an "incident".

Anyway, congrats with the new bike! Committ to learn lots and you'll have a blast!

[Borislav]

Riding a motorcycle is dangerous. Sometimes stuff happens on the road that YOU CAN NOT control and being on a bike is less forgiving than being in a car.

YOU HAVE TO WEAR YOUR GEAR.

The one time I did not weary my knee pads I went down, and now I have a knee problem FOR LIFE.

DID I MENTION WEAR YOUR GEAR?

[HBerry]

My parents would never be interested in taking the MSF class with me.

I am going to wear all the correct gear I have the helmet and gloves, I need to get pants and a jacket.

Thanks for all the good advice, my lessons start tomorrow!

[VinceF2]

Originally posted by hohum
Vince, my Dad has the same bike, and he went with a larger front rotor, a Brembo caliper (big bux) and stainless lines. Made all the difference in the world in how that bike hauled down.

Cheers,
Chris

PS - I looked for a way to dual rotor the front of his bike and kinda worked out some OEM Harley parts that would work but he would have none of me "hacking" on his bike.

Chris...

Thanks for the info man... I'm not sure he even knows there are other options... Did your Dad get all those upgrades through Harley??

Thanks again!

H...

Congrats on the Kawi... sounds like you're off to the right start... have fun and be safe

Mike

[hohum]

The upgrades did not come directly from Harley, all available through aftermarket Harley suppliers however. I coulda done all OEM Harley stuff but it would have involved swapping the front forks and my dad didn't want a bastard mixed breed Harley for whatever reason :shrug:

H, Pick up the Kawi yet? Get yerself into an MSF course pronto

Cheers,
Chris

[HBerry]

Got the bike on saturday! It has been sitting in the girlfriends garage all weekend being admired and polished. I was supposed to take it out today, but when I went to register it I forgot proof of residence so I couldn't

I am going tomorrow to register it and hopefully take it out then. I will be going to bike night tomorrow night also.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by HBerry
I am going tomorrow to register it and hopefully take it out then. I will be going to bike night tomorrow night also.

When riding slowly over soft ground, keep your weight on the pegs to stabilize the bike, which means picking your ass off the seat just a little bit. Turn your head in the direction you want to go and shift your lower body off the seat slightly away from the direction you are turning. Relax your grip on the handlebars. If the bike starts to wobble, don't grab the brakes, it will go down faster than you can blink.

All things they teach you in the MSF basic course, away from the eyes of 500 other motorcyclists, pedestrians, and shiny new bikes to knock over.

[hohum]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
When riding slowly over soft ground, keep your weight on the pegs to stabilize the bike, which means picking your ass off the seat just a little bit. Turn your head in the direction you want to go and shift your lower body off the seat slightly away from the direction you are turning. Relax your grip on the handlebars. If the bike starts to wobble, don't grab the brakes, it will go down faster than you can blink.

All things they teach you in the MSF basic course, away from the eyes of 500 other motorcyclists, pedestrians, and shiny new bikes to knock over.

Yeah, they teach you that and countersteering + slow speed maneuvering + countersteer swerving... so thats 'kinda' all they teach you in the MSF basic course, but not quite.

Cheers,
Chris

[HBerry]

I coudln't get into the MSF class until august, but fortunetly my girlfriends dad has 30+ years of riding experience and he is willing to teach me some. The dealer I got it from is also going to do so, so I should be ok for a little while.

I'm hopefully going to get my jacket and pants this week or next so I will have all the right gear.

Would you guys (and girls) say boots specifically designed for motorcyles are needed, or just normal work boots are fine?

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by HBerry
I coudln't get into the MSF class until august, but fortunetly my girlfriends dad has 30+ years of riding experience and he is willing to teach me some. The dealer I got it from is also going to do so, so I should be ok for a little while.

Yeah I remember the agonizing two month wait until my MSF course. Just keep the shiny side up, that's all. Tipped over Kawis make baby jesus cry.

[hohum]

Boots designed for a motorcycle are way more protective than your typical work boots.

That said, I ride in hiking boots right now because my MC boots along with my leather suit were destroyed in a basement flood.

Definitely something you should consider buying, but IMO the order of things you buy should be:
Helmet
Riding Gloves
Leather Jacket
Riding Pants
Boots

Cheers,
Chris

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by hohum

Helmet
Riding Gloves
Leather Jacket
Riding Pants
Boots

earplugs
rain gear
frame sliders
swingarm sliders
tankbag
saddlebags
rear stand
front stand
helmet/gear for passengers
aerostich
track suit
track day
another motorcycle
bike trailer

There's more. You broke yet?

[hohum]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
earplugs
rain gear
frame sliders
swingarm sliders
tankbag
saddlebags
rear stand
front stand
helmet/gear for passengers
aerostich
track suit
track day
another motorcycle
bike trailer

There's more. You broke yet?

Baha, yeah, there's LOTS MORE! What I listed above are just the BARE minimums... anything less and you should feel just a wee bit naked on the road.

Its an addiction, no doubt!