I never took the MSF

[Stoneman]

How does one determine after an accident that said accident would have been avoided if only the MSF class was taken?

[Paul_E_D]

When you get to hear the descriptions of all the fatalities in a year, you can make your own judgements. It's BS to guess, but listening to the descriptions over and over is compelling. Training can only be good. Being informed is helpful in most pursuits, though not always as much fun as going in blind.

[DankDirtyBird]

mine was a whopping $25.

[Svenny]

I just ride with others that have already done MSF and just do what they do.

[SprintPoser]

I just ride with others that have already done MSF and just do what they do.

That wouldn't do much good if you ever rode with a guy like "Polonius". He could take the MSF course 15 times a year and you'd get the same results.

Some men you just can't teach. He would be one of those, and you would learn nothing good by doing what people like him do.

[DroFiveOh]

Ya'll motherfuckers need jesus.

Preach.

[stpierre]

Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Tour)



It saves me 10 percent on my insurance every year

+1 The class sucked root.

[snwbrdr435]

But I've seen enough completely manky top rope anchors to know that self-taught climbing can be a bad idea.

Funny you mention this me and one of my climbing buddies were talking about that this morning.

[Tricklidz]

*cough, cough****
I started riding before M,S,F were letters!!!

[Svenny]

*cough, cough****
I started riding before M,S,F were letters!!!

We rode '60s era Triumphs...in the snow....up hill....both ways!

[Svenny]

That wouldn't do much good if you ever rode with a guy like "Polonius". He could take the MSF course 15 times a year and you'd get the same results.

Some men you just can't teach. He would be one of those, and you would learn nothing good by doing what people like him do.

Hmmm..I don't know of this "Polonius" that you speak of, I will have to do some research and possibly reconsider my potentially erroneous statement that I previously made. Thank you for this insight.

[SprintPoser]

He's a guy in his 60's who rides so poorly it's a wonder he's still alive at all. back in 1997 when SRNE was alive and well, it was the death knell of a group ride if he showed up because you just knew you were going to be picking a bike out of the bushes at some point during the day. For all these years, people who know him have told him to "Please find another hobby", yet he showed up at Motomarket's spring Open House this year...on the same old Kawasaki Z7 motorcycle that has hit everything but the lottery..

The olde fartes around here would know of him. He's legendary.

[OreoGaborio]

comfortable sneakers...

Fuckin gear nazi

[CBR929RE]

you're gonna DIE and take someone else out with you if you don't take MSF AND the ERC. otherwise don't even think about buying that little fiddy

[gregp]

I am still not a believer, but two of my close friends (beginners) are, and I guess that says something. I suppose that it is difficult for an old, experienced, off road guy like me to look back, and somehow believe that there is a better way than what I experienced - 20 years of dirt riding/racing before even touching the pavement. I still maintain that mastering a dirt bike is the best/safest way to become a proficient and safe street rider - whether that takes a month, or 20 years. My friends tell me that they learned a lot, and thoroughly enjoyed the MSF classes, so I am slowly altering my opinion of it. I still do not believe that it should be mandatory in any way.
The last time we had this discussion, somebody did not like my opinion... so, I am here to say that my opinion is "evolving". :-D

[nhbubba]

Learning in the dirt first simply isn't practical in most urban and suburban areas these days. There are too many land use, noise, etc issues these days.

MSF is far less comprehensive, but far more accessible.

These are the realities of the world we (most of us) live in these days.

[Awesome]

Learning in the dirt first simply isn't practical in most urban and suburban areas these days. There are too many land use, noise, etc issues these days.

MSF is far less comprehensive, but far more accessible.

These are the realities of the world we (most of us) live in these days.

Which days was that?

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

Greg. You're missing the point of the MSF class. It isn't about how to ride after the first few exercises. It's about how to survive while you learn to ride.

After seeing at least a hundred 5+ years experience riders come to MSF "just to get my license/insurance discount" who couldn't ride for shit and made bery basic mistakes (only using rear brake, pulling in clutch to corner, shifting down to first and dropping clutch when slowing down to walking speed etc erc) I'd say there is a very real need for MSF to be available.

.....and 1000 years dirt experience matters little on the street. Driving a car translates better dirt riding experience when it comes to street riding as far a traffic awareness is concerned.

A 20 year experience dirt rider comes into a 50MPH corner at 70MPH and realizes hes in too hot his first reaction is going to be stomp on rear brake,. That's not gonna work on a gsxr1000.

Glad you are coming around to it. :-)

Does everyone need it? Probably not. However, there is zero doubt that is has saved hundreds if not thousands of lives.

[jwm2k3]

I rode in the dirt for many years before hitting the street. Nowhere in the dirt did I ever encounter or hear of countersteering. Nor did anyone I ever rode with. I learned of it in MSF. I think if you ride street at a spirited pace (and lets face it, most of us here are riding race bikes with headlights) and you arent countersteering, you'll prolly end up off the road at some point. This knowledge and practice of it on the range at the MSF can make a rider 'feel' better while on the street. I know for me personally the MSF class was great. I was scared shit of riding on the street.

There are some people who should never ride, MSF class or not, some just cant get it.

There are some who never took the class and are great riders. I would have been one of these. In my class I was by far the most skilled student on the range. I still wanted to take it. I knew i would be more comfortable on the street, I knew I would be granted the MA license upon completion of the class with no need to perform a road test with a MA St trooper, I knew it would save me on insurance. Wheres the downside?

[Paul_E_D]

I agree. Dirt riders don't seem to know shit about riding technique, which is odd, cause it's pretty technical...

[csmutty]

I agree. Dirt riders don't seem to know shit about riding technique, which is odd, cause it's pretty technical...

Oh hey paul.

I started in the dirt and raced in the dirt before I was of age and could ride on the street. Like was said above I had no idea what counter steering was and during the course I still did not grasp the concept as I did not have enough speed. When I got my license and started riding on the street I finally figured out what they were talking about and told my dad about it, who had been riding for years and years on the street and had never heard of it. After telling him he said, "wow that makes it so much easier".

But MSF isn't only about the physical motor skills. It is about the mental process of riding and how to survive as Degs said. Controlling a motorcycle requires a lot more concentration than driving a car and what is being taught is what to concentrate on when you are riding and how to react when you see a scenario unfold. While the riding portion is obviously useful, I believe that the classroom portion is actually more useful to the overall development of a skilled and safe rider.

[CBR929RE]

Which days was that?

It'll be done in a week

[Awesome]

It'll be done in a week

These days, how long is a week? These days, marchensinis are worth more these days.

[CBR929RE]

These days, how long is a week? These days, marchensinis are worth more these days.

about 42 days

[gregp]

I agree. Dirt riders don't seem to know shit about riding technique, which is odd, cause it's pretty technical...

LOL!